Blue Jays: How we’d vote if Jays Journal had a HOF ballot

To start with, I’ve broken the players down to a few different categories. Also, since we have less than a dozen votes to work with as far as percentages go, I’ll just give you the general range rather than the specific number.

First-timers with no votes from our team

• Carl Crawford
• Prince Fielder
• Tim Lincecum
• Ryan Howard
• Justin Morneau
• Joe Nathan
• Jonathan Papelbon
• Jake Peavy
• A.J. Pierzynski
• Jimmy Rollins
• Mark Teixeira

I’m certain that many of these players will receive votes when the ballot results are announced later this month. Many of them will even gather the more than 5% they need to stay on the ballot going forward. That said, we see many players go the “one and done” route with the HOF voting, and there’s no shame in that. You have to have a pretty incredible career to even be mentioned in the same breath as the greatest players of all-time, so I’m sure it’s an honour regardless of how many times you appear.

For what it’s worth, if I had a legitimate ballot this year I would definitely have voted for Justin Morneau. Not that I think he should make the Hall by any means, but as a fellow Canadian I would have shown him some love, especially because my personal ballot wouldn’t be full this time around. To his credit, he does have an AL MVP award on his resume, and I’ll always wonder how his career would have gone if not for the unfortunate concussion issues he went through.

Returning candidates with no votes from our team

• Tim Hudson
• Bobby Abreu
• Torii Hunter
• Mark Buehlre
• Andy Pettitte

Obviously several of these players are going to receive their fair share of the votes. Hudson just barely snuck back on the ballot with 5.2% of the vote last year (you need at least 5% to stick around), but Pettitte had 13.7%, and Buehlre finished with 11%. Still, none of these players received any love from our staff, and for the most part I can understand why. I mean, I’m included in that total, so obviously I agree to some extent.

A handful of votes, but a long way to go

• Jeff Kent
• Manny Ramirez
• Scott Rolen
• Gary Sheffield
• Sammy Sosa
• Omar Vizquel
• Billy Wagner

A group of players that didn’t land on my personal ballot, but I can understand why there would be support for most them. I’m generally a “big ballot” kinda guy, but these players just don’t scratch the itch for me, and most of the writers here at Jays Journal felt the same way. I think Ramirez would be different, but his multiple PED suspensions make him feel like a long shot to ever receive serious vote totals. We’ll see if that changes over time, but this is his sixth turn on the ballot and he only had 28.2% last year.

Close, but no cigar

• Todd Helton
• Andrew Jones
• David Ortiz
• Alex Rodriguez
• Curt Schilling

This is the point where we reach a serious debate, and where I’d like to bring in some comments from my colleagues here at Jays Journal.

Dave Corcoran on Andruw Jones-  Jones had eight 30 home run seasons, including 41 and 51 home runs seasons, and three more with at least 20 long balls. Jones also collected ten consecutive Gold Gloves and was one of the greatest defenders in the world during his prime. While his batting average wasn’t superb, it was good enough to go with his power and his remarkable defence.

Brent Cardy on Todd Helton- I thought Helton was a solid hitter. Some may argue he had a truckload of protection from Larry Walker and Dante Bichette, and he also played his career in Coors Field. Ballpark factor is a real thing, folks. However, he again did play in National League parks, which are bigger. He did put up a 61.8 for his career and a 404 OBP. He was solid, and underrated in many ways.

Dave Corcoran on Billy Wagner- Just one of six pitchers to ever record 400 career saves.  Pitched in more than 70 games, five times in his career. Over 16 seasons he was as consistent as they come, only having an ERA over 2.85 once in his career, which was an injury-filled 2000 season.

Addressing the elephant in the room

Chris Henderson on Alex Rodriguez and David Ortiz

Some of us voted for Ortiz and A-Rod, and others decided to pass. There is always going to be a debate about whether players from the PED era belong in the Hall of Fame, and that’s part of what’s going on here. That’s especially the case with Rodriguez, who was twice suspended for his actions, which has really hurt his slam dunk HOF case.

As for Ortiz, he was only linked to the whole thing through the Mitchell report, and many fans will tell you he shouldn’t be included in the PED-era stuff at all. I don’t know where I sit on that, but I think I can speak for the majority of our staff in general on these two players.

I believe that if we polled our group again in a year or two, both Ortiz and A-Rod would be elected, especially the former. Through the discussions we had as a group, I think it was about being “first-timers” as much as anything, and the precedent has already been set. If the all-time home run champion like Barry Bonds doesn’t make the Hall of Fame on the first crack, then A-Rod isn’t going to either.

And I think, in general, that’s where we sit here. For me personally, I’ll admit that’s how I feel. I’d likely vote for both of them eventually, but not on the first time around.

As for Schilling, he was one vote away from making the Hall of Fame according to our staff. We could probably spend a whole day talking about that one, but I’ll leave you with the positive from our own Graeme Wallace:

Curt Schilling was the heart and soul of three teams that made it to the World Series, including two that won it all. His gutty complete game shutout kept the Phillies alive in Game 5 of the Fall Classic against the Blue Jays.

Schilling’s next chance to play the hero came with Arizona in 2001 and he would not be denied. He made three starts in the Fall Classic against the Yankees and only surrendered four runs over 21.1 innings. His performance earned him World Series MVP. His gritty efforts helped the Red Sox finally break through in 2004 and helped Boston capture the Commissioner’s trophy again in 2007.

For what it’s worth, I think Schilling will likely be elected this year, which is also his 10th time on the ballot. I’m glad I don’t have to actually decide whether or not to vote for the guy.

Yes, we did elect someone

• Barry Bonds
• Roger Clemens

It’s the 10th time on the ballot for baseball’s all-time home run champion, and also for one of the greatest pitchers to ever step foot on the mound. It’s never been about talent or accomplishments for these Bonds and Clemens though, and everything to do with involvement during baseball’s steroid era.

Graeme Wallace on Bonds and Clemens- Long before he broke the single season and all-time home run records, Barry Bonds was the best baseball player I’d ever seen. He had seemingly limitless athleticism, power and speed, and that famous smile made him a cherished man in Pittsburgh.

Although his figure, game, and public perception changed during his time in the Bay, what he was able to accomplish was truly remarkable. He led the league in walks 12 times, including an astonishing total of 232 in 2004.  Out of all the accolades that defined his career, a few stand out: 7 MVP awards, 15 seasons with an OPS of 1.000 or better, and 8 gold glove awards.  And somehow, he only led MLB in home runs twice.

Roger Clemens maniacal drive led him to a career unlike any other. It also led him on a villainous path that has caused many to question his eligibility. While we’re not sure exactly when “Rocket” began experimenting with foreign substances, his career with Boston and Toronto alone merits strong consideration. Five Cy Young awards, six ERA titles and an outrageous 44 shutouts!

The fact that he was able to pitch nearly another decade, win two more Cy Young awards, and a pair of World Series rings, demonstrates his insane will to win. That same ambition has led many voters to leave him off their ballot, but in my books, he deserves a spot in Cooperstown.

Tyson Shushkewich on Bonds and Clemens– I have always been an advocate for a full ballot if there are enough names that should go to the HOF. I hate seeing voters trying to act as gatekeepers to Cooperstown even though some of them never even watched certain players play during their prime, or have not touched on the topic of baseball in years but still get to vote. This year, I think there are 10 deserving players that deserve recognition.

I am also for PED users who have played well and earned the right to be in the HOF such as Bonds and Clemens. I know Ortiz was linked to PEDs but never formally suspended, but he earns a vote because of his play on the field and what he did for the city of Boston. This would also include Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and Gary Sheffield because I believe their stats are enough to get them into the HOF. I understand people have different viewpoints and stances regarding PED users in the HOF but at the same time, to me, they deserve a place in Cooperstown if they have the stats to back it up.

Frank Pirillo on Bonds and Clemens- I’m strongly against PED users and happy to see the game has cleaned up quite a bit.  For any recent and future players that get caught, it would be very tough to give them any votes.  However, for me, I believe the Hall showcases the history of the game, and the best of the best for each era.

PED’s were a major part of an era that featured players breaking records – that at the time, all fans (even non-baseball fans) were glued to their TVs watching history.  Some got caught, and many did not.  It’s a fun debate, but I believe no matter what side of the fence you’re on, that era produced some pretty amazing players – whether they needed to use it or not.

History may not always include things we want to remember, but it always includes everything that tells the story, and in my opinion, I couldn’t tell a story about the game without mentioning the PED era.

Summing it up

Much like the group collectively decided not to vote Ortiz or Rodriguez into the Hall as first-time players, our discussion was very focused on the fact that this is both Bonds and Clemens’ 10th and final time on the ballot. From here they would have to rely on the Veteran’s Committee to be enshrined, and there’s no telling how long that would take, or if they’d be alive to see it.

I can’t speak for everyone on the staff, but I think the majority of us felt that they had “served their time” in a sense. Both of these players are no-doubt Hall of Famers without the stains on their resume because of PED’s, and we know that the Hall has included players that were less than perfect. I think Frank summed it up well when he said “I couldn’t tell a story about the game without mentioning the PED era”. Like it or not, it’s part of the history of Major League baseball, especially if you look in the record books.

Overall I would argue that this year’s ballot is a particularly difficult one, and I’m very curious to see how things shake down. As for us here at Jays Journal, we’d reluctantly and finally let Bonds and Clemens take their place in the hall on their 10th trip through the process, and likely would let a few others in down the line as well.