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Toronto Blue Jays Poll: Greatest of All Time Rd3
Mandatory Credit: Dan Hamilton-USA TODAY Sports
Jays Journal asks for your choices for the Greatest Blue Jays of All Time. You voted in Rd 2 and now have your say as we move closest to the greatest!
You’ve had your say in Round 2 of the Greatest Blue Jays of All Time. The voting has become progressively more difficult as move through each round. And, while some players managed to sneak through (we see you, Shannon Stewart), there is no questioning others.
Toronto Blue Jays
The results form the second round really didn’t reveal any surprises. The names you would expect to move on did. Dave Stieb survived his matchup against Jim Clancy. In fact, it should have been closer than it was. Roy Halladay also dominated Pat Hentgen. That is the nature of the competition. In choosing the greatest, you often have to skip over some very deserving candidates.
That is not to take anything away from players like Clancy or Hentgen, who are icons in the organization. Rather, it is a testament to just how great the others were. And, votes often test your own personal requirements for what is greatness. When George Bell narrowly edges Edwin Encarnacion are readers putting more emphasis on the aura surrounding a player’s time as part of a winning team? Does recency help a guy like Jose Bautista advance easily from round to round?
When you come to pitching matchups, we have kept starters and relievers separate for obvious reasons. This will likely be the last time that happens. This might seem unfair when you look at your choices, but for the sake of comparison, we tried to keep players together according to roles. Obviously, with hitters, it is a lot easier to compare without separating by role.
We want to hear from you. Vote for who you think is the Greatest of All Time and leave your thoughts in the comment section. We enjoy the discussion and debate. Let’s get to it. Click on Matchup 1.
Next: Matchup 1: Contact vs Power
Mandatory Credit: Tommy Gilligan-USA TODAY Sports
Matchup 1: Tony Fernandez vs Jose Bautista
Fernandez made it to Round 3 by beating out Jesse Barfield and then Vernon Wells. Bautista defeated Damaso Garcia and Joe Carter to advance. Both of these guys have earned their way into Blue Jays lore, but in very different ways.
Toronto Blue Jays
Fernandez spent 11 years (off and on) with the Blue Jays and leads the franchise in games played with 1450. HE also has the most hits all time with 1583. He’s third all time with a .297 average, 9th with a .353 OBP and 5th in walks with 439. He’s also scored the 4th most runs in franchise history with 704. He was an All Star with the Blue Jays 3 times (once more with San Diego) and a 4 time Gold Glove winner. He was also a big part of the mid to late 1980’s winning years, averaging well over 4 WAR during that time. He ranks 3rd all time with a 37 WAR. It should be noted that he played 161 games in 1985 and 163 the next year. How much do you value consistency and winning?
Bautista is no slouch, himself. He’s ranked 12th in games played with 962. But, it is what he’s done in that number of games that will sway you. In 8 seasons with the Blue Jays, Bautista has shot up to 2nd in HR with 243, 6th in runs (630), 4th in OBP (.384), 2nd in SLG (.538) and 2nd in OPS (.922). He’s a 6 time All Star, 2 time HR champ, 2 time Silver Slugger who finished in the top 5 in MVP voting twice (2 more in the top 10). He also led the league in walks twice. He currently ranks 5th on the team with 36 WAR and is averaging nearly 5 WAR per season, peaking at 8.1 in 2011. While he hasn’t been on many winning teams, he may have made up for ti with his performance in the 2015 post season; a showing that included one of the greatest single moments in club history: the 7th inning 3-run HR and bat flip that rocked the world.
Our next matchup asks you to choose between the two greatest relievers this franchise has ever had.
Next: Macthup 2: Blue Jays' Greatest Relievers of All Time
Mandatory Credit: Rick Osentoski-USA TODAY Sports
Matchup 2: Duane Ward vs Tom Henke
In order to get to the matchup we all knew was coming, Ward had to beat out Paul Quantrill in Round 1 and Mike Timlin in Round 2. Meanwhile, The Terminator beat Casey Janssen and Brett Cecil. The fact that these two are up against each other is only fitting. By far, they are the two relievers that folks will look back on and say were “great”.
Toronto Blue Jays
It might be a tough call, though because both of these guys were with the club at roughly the same time. While Ward started in 1986, Henke came a year earlier for that magical 1985 season. It was during those years that Henke served as the closer collecting a total of 217 saves, which puts him in first place on the franchise’s all time list. Ward backed him up, but wasn’t exactly second fiddle. The club relied on him in an incredible 81 games in 1991. From 1988 through ’92, he picked up 76 saves of his own and totalled 561 innings to Henke’s 563 during his entire 8 seasons.
Ward would end up with 650 innings under his belt as a Blue Jay. When Henke left and Ward took over the closer’s role, he picked up 45 saves and finished 70 games. According to Fangraphs.com, Henke put up 16.2 WAR as a Blue Jay. Ward totaled 14.9 in 8 seasons. Though, one of those seasons saw him return to the club after a year’s absence and put up -0.1 in 2.2 innings. Ward has gone on to be a heavy contributor to Blue Jays youth programs, etc.
So, the choice is yours. Who do you vote for? Is it as tough as it seems?
Our next matchup asks you to choose between two of the best sluggers the franchise has ever known.
Next: Matchup 3: How Much Do You Value Winning?
Mandatory Credit: Nick Turchiaro-USA TODAY Sports
Matchup 3: George Bell vs Carlos Delgado
Bell made it Round 3 by beating out Kelly Gruber in the first round and Edwin Encarnacion in the second. He just beat out EE with 57% of the vote. Fans likely rewarded him for his contributions to winning during his time in Toronto and the memory thereof. Meanwhile, Delgado had an easy time beating John Olerud and Shannon Stewart in each of his rounds.
Toronto Blue Jays
And, here we are. Now, you’re being asked to choose between two all time great sluggers. Bell sits in 5th place on the team’s all time HR list with 202. Oddly, that is a spot that looks tenuous with EE just 5 behind him. Bell is also 3rd in RBI with 740, 5th in hits with 1294, 6th in slugging at .486 and 9th with an OPS of .811. He played 9 seasons in Toronto and put up a WAR of 21 (according to Baseball Reference) which puts him 16th all time.
But fans will remember his contributions in the mid to late 1980’s that led to winning baseball in Toronto. He was major part of the franchise’s first division title in 1985. And, he was the also the organization’s first MVP winner taking the award in 1987. During his time in Toronto, he was a 2 time All Star, led the league in RBI in 1987 with 134, was a Silver Slugger 3 times and finished in the top 5 in MVP voting 3 times.
Delgado is a different story. Even though he was one of the best power hitters in the game when he played, he never found himself in the postseason. He didn’t benefit from a winning team like Bell did. Yet, he put together a tenure in Toronto that has him at the top of almost every offensive category: 1st in HR with 336, 1st in RBI with 1058, 1st in doubles with 343, 1st in BB with 827, 1st in SLG with .556, 1st in OPS at .949. He’s also 2nd in OBP with a .392 mark. He’s 4th all time with a 36 WAR. He’s a 2 time All Star (which is shocking), 3 time Silver Slugger winner and led the league in doubles in 2000 with 57 and in RBI in 2003 with 145.
So, do you reward winning or personal bests? That’s up to you.
Our next matchup asks you to choose the greatest starting pitcher in Blue Jays history!
Next: Matchup 4: Can You Choose the Blue Jays' Greatest Starter Ever?
Mandatory Credit: Nick Turchiaro-USA TODAY Sports
Matchup 4: Dave Stieb vs Roy Halladay
Here we go! This might be the toughest decision you’ve had to make in this entire process. And, you knew it was going to happen. You can’t get to the Greatest Blue Jay of All Time without having these two goliaths go head to head. Let’s get to it!
Stieb is the greatest Blue Jay to never win a Cy Young award. In fact, he never finished higher than 4th (1982). In the magical season of 1985, he led the league in ERA (2.48) and ERA+ and finished in 7th place in Cy Young voting. He has the franchise’s most wins with 175. He’s 4th all time with 439 games, 1st in innings pitched at 2873, 1st in strike outs with 1658 and 1st in opponents batting average at .239. He ranks first in WAR at 57.
Toronto Blue Jays
In his 14+ seasons with the Blue Jays, he helped them through the mid to late 80’s with an amazing amount of innings pitched. From 1980 to 1984, he never threw fewer than 11 complete games in a season, including 19 in 1982. Also in ’82, he led the league in innings pitched with 288.1. He also led the league in 1984 with 267 IP. In fact, from 1980 through 1990, he averaged 230 innings pitched. He is the only Blue Jay to throw a no hitter. He also had 3 other no hitters broken up with 2 outs in the 9th inning. The one in 1989 was a bid for a perfect game.
While Stieb was good and was part of a winning team, Roy Halladay was not. He was good, but he did not benefit from a supporting cast, even though he gave the organization time to address that when he re-signed with them. Instead, he was a shining talent on a middling team. His initial failure and rebirth have been well documented. He came back to be one of the best pitchers in Blue Jays history. Where Stieb never got much recognition for his efforts, Halladay did. As a Blue Jay, he was a 6 time All Star, he won the Cy Young Award in 2003 and finished in the top 5 in voting 5 times.
Next: 7 Reasons to be a Fan of Mark Shapiro
Like Stieb, Doc was a work horse leading the league in innings pitched 3 times and complete games 5 times. He spent 12 seasons in Toronto and ranks 2nd in WAR with a 48 WAR. He’s 2nd all time in wins (148), 3rd in ERA by 0.01 at 3.43, 3rd in innings pitched at 2046.2, tied for first in WHIP at 1.20 and 2nd in strike outs with 1495. He did all of this in 126 fewer games than Stieb.
So, who do you choose? This one is tough, no?