Toronto Blue Jays Poll: Greatest Players of All Time Rd2

Mandatory Credit: Nick Turchiaro-USA TODAY Sports

Jays Journal is asking you to choose the Greatest Blue Jays of All Time. Voting in Round 1 has finished. See who moves on to the next round and have your say!

The votes are in from Round 1 of our reader poll. You’ve made some tough calls in the first round. You’ve also made some very easy ones. That is what is so interesting about this endeavor. Each of us has their own criteria for deciding on greatness. As we move into the second round, your selection process may be challenged a bit. It may be harder to choose. But, we’ll present the case for each and let you go to work.

In the first round, there were some interesting results. For example, Jose Bautista was selected over Damaso Garcia. That is not the surprise, but the lopsided nature of the result was a bit. I mean, Garcia certainly is no slouch in Blue Jays lore. But, Bautista is fresh in everyone’s mind. And, show me a video of a Garcia bat flip and things might tilt a bit in his favor.

On the pitching side of things, there weren’t any real surprises other than the fact that some people actually chose Kelvim Escobar and Todd Stottlemyre over Dave Stieb and Roy Halladay respectively. Really? It wasn’t many, mind you but there were some.

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But, that is the fun nature of this poll. There is bound to be some room for debate and bias. Whether it is playoff experience, a World Series trophy or plain old recency, there is bound to be one thing that influences your decision. That is going to be put to the test here in the next round. The choices will be tougher.

In Round 2, both hitters and pitchers will be put together. They aren’t up against each other, yet. But, now that we only have 4 matchups on each side, we can afford to move a little quicker. Choose your “greatest” and feel free to justify your choices in the comment section. The winner of each matchup will go to the next round where the choice will be even tougher. We’ll continue until we get one hitter and one pitcher and you will have to choose between the two.

Without further ado, here we go!

Next: Matchup 1: OF vs INF

Matchup 1: Vernon Wells vs Tony Fernandez

In the first round of our poll, Wells beat out Ernie Whitt by capturing 81% of the vote. That isn’t really a surprise. Let’s be honest, thanks to his “one time” elite numbers from a CF, he managed to climb higher on the all time list than Whitt in just about every offensive category. Wells sits in 3rd place all time with 223 HR.

During his nearly 10 years as a Blue Jay, Wells hit .280/.329/.475 with a WAR of 24.8! That value actually outweighs his massive contract (7yr/$126M) that is at the crux of any ire Blue Jays fans sent his way. When he was hot, he was the face of the franchise. When he started to decline, he was public enemy number one. That was because of his contract.

Toronto Blue Jays

But, consider this: His 24.8 WAR would be worth substantially more in today’s market. With an estimated $8M per WAR, his Blue Jays service time was worth $198,400,000! Obviously, that is not an accurate way to describe Wells’ time in Toronto or the value he brought to the team. But, at the same time, we should not understate his contributions, either.

Fernandez (who received 73% of the vote in Rd 1) is the only other Blue Jay to have more hits than Wells. His 1583 are the most ever. And, if you think Wells’ WAR is impressive, consider tony’s mark of 32.4! In his 10+ years as an off and on Blue Jay, Fernandez had 5 seasons (out of 6) where he was worth 4 or more WAR.

Fernandez wasn’t a power hitter at all. He hit 10 or more home runs just 3 times (twice he hit 11). His career ISO mark of .111 pales in comparison to Wells’ .189. But, where Wells was a career .319 OBP hitter, Fernandez averaged .347. But, it wasn’t even his bat that made him so valuable.

According to Fangraphs.com, his career defense has a value of 116.9 while his bat totals just 19.3. Many people will remember him as a slick fielding short stop, but he also showed an ability to play third and second. As well, it is worth noting that he played in a time where the turf was concrete covered by felt. The ball certainly moved a lot quicker than it does today.

In our next matchup, we look at a couple of relievers who used to be teammates.

Next: Matchup 2: Former Teammates

Mandatory Credit: Rick Osentoski-USA TODAY Sports

Matchup 2: Duane Ward vs Mike Timlin

In 1992 and 1993, the Toronto Blue Jays featured a couple of effective relievers. One of them was just coming into his own, while the other was a work horse who would end his career a short while later.

Toronto Blue Jays

In Round 1, Duane Ward received 93% of the vote. He pitched 7+ years for the Blue Jays and ended up in the closer’s role for the franchise’s second straight World Series title. Ward saved 45 games in ’93 with a 2.13 ERA and an impressive 12.18 K/9. He would also reach a career high 83.9% LOB that year. But, that wasn’t his best year. See, in 1991, he went 7-6 with 23 saves in 81 games. 81! He threw 107 innings that year and put up 4.1 WAR. From the bullpen.

In total, Ward put up a career WAR of 14.7 with 5 straight seasons of 2+ WAR from 1989 through 1993. What is the most impressive aspect of this is the total amount of innings he threw from year to year. He tossed over 100 innings 5 times from ’88 through ’92 with a career high 127.2 innings in 1990. Ward may not have the career resume of some of the elite closers in MLB history, but that workload speaks volumes.

Timlin (who received 61% of the vote in Rd 1) had a front row seat to the greatness as he entered the league in 1991. He would go on to have an 18 year career that saw him reach nearly twice as many innings as Ward. Of course, he lasted over twice as long as a pitcher. Perhaps the highlights of Timlin’s career really serve as book ends.

He started with the Blue Jays in 1991 when he went 11-6 in 108 innings, including 3 starts. It was a great rookie season that saw him put up 1.5 WAR and finish 6th in AL Rookie of the Year voting. The end of his time with the Blue Jays saw him save 31 games in ’96 with a 1.4 WAR. Everything else in between adds up to an average reliever. Or, perhaps we remember Timlin so fondly because he fielded and threw out the bunt attempt that won the Blue Jays franchise its first world championship.

Our next matchup features a battle of two of the most memorable home runs in Blue Jays history.

Next: Matchup 3: Big Home Runs

Matchup 3: Joe Carter vs Jose Bautista

Do you like walk off celebrations? Or, do you like bat flips? This matchup has them both. You have to chose between two guys who’ve delievered big hits when their team needed them in clutch, post season moments.

Joe Carter recieved 87% of the vote in Rd 1. He is most famous for his walk off World Series homer against the Phillies in 1993. The “Touch ‘Em All, Joe” call is forever engraved in our memories. It marked the first World Series won on Canadian soil. The impact that this had on Canadian culture at the time cannot be understated. Aside from Roberto Alomar’s home run in 1992 against the Athletics, Carter’s shot might be the single most important hit in franchise history.

Toronto Blue Jays

Aside form that, Carter also sits in 4th place on the club’s all time HR leader board. His 203 dingers came over a span of 7 seasons. He hit 30+ HR 4 times with the Blue Jays and 20+ 3 more times. He also drove in 100+ in 6 of his 7 seasons. Carter was an average hitter who averaged over .200 ISO during his time in Toronto. Yet, his WAR never reflected this. As good as his bat was, Carter’s defense was just as bad. Fangraphs does not list a positive value for his defense in any year he played for the club, with the exception of ’91 where it’s a 1.9.

Bautista (who received a whopping 98% of the vote in Rd 1) has been a better defender than Carter, though not by much. He possesses a cannon in right field, but that is not enough to bring his defensive value into the positive. In fact, his only positive year came in 2009, when he put up a 1.6 mark. Eerily similar.

Of course, that is where the similarities end. The gap between offense and defense is measurably greater with Bautista than Carter. Since 2009, his offense has been rated 241.6 by Fangraphs, which brings his WAR to 34.4. He has done this in 7 full seasons as a Blue Jay. That’s an average of 4.91 WAR per year. He sits in 2nd place on the Blue Jays all time HR list with 243.

Bautista is a 6 time All star who finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 4 times, as high as 3rd in 2011. He led the league in HR twice in a row with 54 and 43. That’s 97 HR in just two seasons. He’s also led the league in walks twice with 4 100+ BB seasons. But, all of this might be secondary to his uber dramatic 2015 ALDS Game 5 HR that came in the craziest 7th inning any of us can recall. Of course, we’re talking about the bat flip that had the world talking. It helped solidify his place in Blue Jays lore.

Our next matchup will test your knowledge of Blue Jays history.

Next: Matchup 4: Classic Pitching

Mandatory Credit: Bob DeChiara-USA TODAY Sports

Matchup 4: Dave Stieb vs Jim Clancy

Both of these starters have earned their place in Blue Jays history. Clancy started his career the same year the Blue Jays started theirs. Stieb came along not too long after. Both rank highly on the Blue Jays all time list of pitchers.

Toronto Blue Jays

Jim Clancy received 69% of the vote in Rd 1. He started his career in 1977 and went 4-9 for the expansion team in Toronto. It wasn’t a great 76.2 innings of work for him as his BB/9 rate (5.52) was actually higher than his K/9 (5.17). Despite that, he put up 0.5 WAR. And, he never looked back. He would go on to collect 128 wins as a Blue Jay, which puts him in 3rd spot. He also sits in 3rd with  1237 strikeouts.

Clancy would accumulate 27.9 WAR for the Blue Jays over 12 seasons. The one time All Star led the league in games started twice: 36 in 1984 and an incredible 40 in 1982. He started 30+ games 8 times in Toronto and 20+ 2 more times. He threw 11 complete games in ’82 and 15 in ’80. It is that durability that netted him 2204.2 innings as a Blue Jay, which is good for 2nd place.

He’s 2nd to Stieb, who received 98% of the vote in Rd 1. Who actually voted for Escobar over him?! Stieb threw 2873 innings over 15 seasons with the Blue Jays (he had a year in Chicago and 4 out of baseball altogether). His case just might be made by cycling through his resume alone. He is the franchise leader in wins with 175. He is a 7 time All Star who finished in the top 10 in Cy Young award voting 4 times.

Aside from that, Stieb is the only Blue Jays pitcher to ever throw a no hitter. He did so on Sept 2. 1990. As remarkable as that is, he also had two other no hit bids broken up with two outs in the 9th inning back to back starts in 1988. It would happen again in 1989, this time it was a perfect game bid.

The next matchup asks you to choose between two power threats.

Next: Matchup 5: More Big Boppers

Matchup 5: Edwin Encarnacion vs George Bell

This pair of sluggers from the Dominican Republic have slugged their way into the hearts of Blue Jays fans. And, they are very close to each other on the list for most home runs in Blue Jays’ franchise history.

Toronto Blue Jays

George Bell received 93% of the vote in Rd 1. He is 5th all time with 202 HR, which he hit over 9 seasons with the Blue Jays. He’s 3rd all time with 740 RBI, 5th all time with 1294 hits and 6th all time with a SLG mark of .486. He is a 3 time All Star who won the MVP award in 1987, the franchise’s first such honor. He would also finish in the top 10 3 other times.

Bell put up 20.3 WAR as a Blue Jay. His best season came in that MVP season where he put up 5.3 WAR. Now, aside form his rookie year, he never put up positive defensive numbers. But, his offense was his calling card. He’s a career .191 ISO hitter who never went up to the plate looking for a walk as evidenced by his career 5% walk rate. Though, for a slugger, his K rate of 11.7% is low.

Encarnacion (who received 765 of the vote in Rd 1) has turned into a more patient and more powerful version of Bell. His career walk rate is 11.9%. His career ISO is also higher at .228. He’s played 6+ season with the Blue Jays and sits just 5 HR back of Bell with 197. He should pass that mark in 2016. EE is also 8th in RBI with 552 and 4th in SLG at .521.

As a Blue Jay, Edwin has hit 30+ HR three times and 40+ once. He’s also driven in 100 runs 3 times. He’s put up 18.8 WAR in his time with Toronto. His best season came in 2015 when he was worth 4.5 WAR. There is no arguing his offensive contributions. But, like most of the hitters on this list, his glove has been questionable. We all remember the terrible showing at third base. Now that he’s moved to the 1B/DH role, his bat is flourishing.

The next matchup pits two dominant relievers against each other!

Next: Matchup 6: Squints vs Terminator

Matchup 6: Brett Cecil vs Tom Henke

This matchup features two relievers with opposite nickname types. “The Terminator”, Tom Henke goes up against “Squints”, Brett Cecil. One moniker elicits fear, the other laughter. But the results for both have been anything but funny.

Toronto Blue Jays

Tom Henke recieved 96% of the vote in Rd 1. And, really it isn’t much of a surprise. When you think about the dominant relievers the Blue Jays have run out there over the years, Henke is likely one of the first you think of. But, is he one of the greatest Blue Jays? Over 8 season with Toronto, he collected 217 saves, which is the most all time. He also had the most chances (254) with nearly 100 more than Duane Ward (157), the next highest. He saved 30+ games 4 times for the Blue Jays and 20+ 3 other times.

He had 3 seasons where his WAR was over 3. In total, he contributed 16.2 WAR. 3 times, he had a K/9 ratio of over 11.5. Even as a closer, he ranks 11th on the club’s all time strike out list with 644. And, if you combine relievers and starters (which admittedly is not something one should do regularly), his 1.02 WHIP as a Blue Jay is better than Dave Stieb, Roy Halladay, Jim Clancy and Pat Hentgen.

Cecil (who received 71% of the vote in Rd 1)  has turned himself into one of the best relievers in baseball. In parts of 7 seasons with the big league club, his curveball has developed into a work of art. The club has been struggling to figure out the best place for Cecil for a few years now. Originally brought up as a starter, he wet 15-7 in 2010. But, it wasn’t meant to be as they moved him to the ‘pen and have flirted with him in different roles. Fans who vote for Cecil may be doing so based on the sum value of his contributions when all is said and done.

But, if we’re looking at assigning the role of Greatest Blue Jays of all time, his 6.7 WAR in 7 seasons may not cut it. His 2015 FIP (2.34) is something the club hopes he’ll be able to maintain. If he can (and they can afford to keep him), when all is said and done, Cecil just might see himself rise on the all time lists. Right now, he ranks 16th in games pitched with 276 and 18th with 619.1 innings.

Our next matchup is a classic debate of power vs speed.

Next: Matchup 7: Power vs Speed

Delgado on Level of Excellence Credit: S Doyle/Jays Journal

Matchup 7: Carlos Delgado vs Shannon Stewart

What kind of person are you? Do you dig the long ball? Or, are you a fan of hustle? This matchup will ask you to choose between these two.

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Delgado leads the Blue Jays in nearly every offensive category. He’s first in HR (336), RBI (1058), 2B (343), runs (889), SLG (.556) and OPS (.949). In his 12 seasons with the Blue Jays, he put up a WAR of 34.9! His best season came in 2000 when he put up 7.4 WAR. He hit 30+ HR 8 times and drove in 100 5 times in Toronto. He’s a 2 time All Star who finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 4 times (twice as a Blue Jay). In a poll such as this, it is tough to argue against his spot in Blue Jays history.

But, Stewart will try. He finished with 67% of the vote in Rd 1. He just might represent the last true, regular lead off hitter the Blue Jays have had. Unless you count Jose Reyes. That’s up to you. Stewart’s speed stood out on a team that seemed to lack it. He ranks 5th all time with 166 stolen bases. In his 8 seasons, he managed to land himself in 7th place all time with a .365 OBP. In fact, when he got regular playing time, he never saw his OBP lower than .363. He gave the Blue Jays 16.2 WAR in total. Is that enough to win against Delgado? You decide.

The final matchup will prove to be a much more difficult choice than this one.

Next: Matchup 9: The Toughest Choice of All