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Starting Pitching “Flyers” the Jays Should Consider

In 2011, we saw the Yankees take flyers on two back end of the rotation, veteran starting pitchers, and those moves were instrumental in New York’s American League East title.

For a total of 2.4 million dollars, the Yankees received 51 starts, 311 innings and 20 wins from Bartolo Colon and Freddy Garcia. Both Colon and Garcia were signed to minor league contracts, as each were coming off of years of injuries and poor performance.

Colon and Garcia’s success in 2011 was surprising to most. The only reason why the pair found themselves in pinstripes was the clubs desperation for starting pitching. The signings looked like nothing more than stop-gap moves until a trade could be made mid-season.

The moves turned out to be great successes for Brian Cashman and the Yankees. While neither were all-stars or Cy Young candidates, they accomplished everything the Yankees could have hoped for. They may not have led the Bronx Bomber’s to a World Series title, but they were certainly vital to the team’s division title.

Starting pitching is the most valuable commodity in baseball. It is also the most volatile, as the physical strain imposed by the volume of work causes a ton of injuries. Having starting pitching depth is crucial for teams to get through the inevitable injury problems a 162 game season brings. Keep in mind, the Blue Jays used 12 different starters last season.

Another aspect to the volatility of starting pitching is youth. Jays fans saw this last year, as both Kyle Drabek and Brett Cecil struggled at the Major League level. These are pitchers with a great deal of talent, who showed just how difficult it is for inexperienced pitchers to make the adjustments necessary to be consistent. The 2012 Jays rotation will feature  a lot of youth again, some of which-like Drabek and Cecil in 2011- may need to be sent down to the minors along the way. The unpredictability of young starters is another reason why the Jays should consider signing a veteran, back-end starter.

Teams sign cheap 4-5 level starters every off season; these are players who generally have experienced age-related performance decline or injury. Often, these signings make little to no impact. However, I believe there are a number of options on the free agent market this year who could make an impact for the Jays. They won’t pick up any all-star or Cy Young votes, but they could be that extra component the Jays need to stave off injury and inconsistency on their way to the post-season. The key is to look for guys who have a lot of potential up-side (either they were excellent at one time, or there “talent/stuff” suggests they should be), but who are coming off injury or rough seasons. Buying players when there value is at its lowest has been a very effective strategy for Alex Anthopoulos so far; this another way to employ that strategy.

For inexpensive, one year contracts, AA should consider signing:

Rich Harden

2011 Contract: 1 year/ $1.75 mil

Career Stats:

W-L 59-38// ERA 3.76 // WHIP 1.30// FIP 3.95// K-9: 9.20// BB-9: 2.25

2011 Stats:

W-L 4-4// ERA 5.12// WHIP 1.43// FIP 4.69// K-9: 9.91// BB-9: 3.38

As a Canadian, a strike-out pitcher and someone who has had great success in MLB in the past, I have always had a soft spot for Harden. Harden’s value plummeted after the 2010 season, when he took a pay cut from  7.5 million, down to just 1.5 mil with Oakland. In 2011, Harden did little to turn that trend around, pitching to a 5+ ERA in 82.2 innings. He did however, continue to show his exceptional ability to miss bats, striking out nearly 10 batters per 9 innings.

Harden is a classic example of an extremely talented pitcher who’s career has been decimated by injuries. In 9 seasons, Harden has only pitched over 100 innings 4 times and he has never hit the 200 inning mark. It won’t happen in 2012 again, but that doesn’t mean that a healthy Rich Harden can’t approach the type of numbers he put up with the Cubs in 2008 again (ERA 2.07/ K-9: 11.01/ 148 IP). The talent is there, the cost is low; let’s bring Harden back home to Canada.

Brandon Webb:

2011 Contract: 1 year/$3 mil

Career Stats:

W-L 87-62// ERA 3.27// WHIP 1.24// FIP 3.50// K-9: 7.26// BB-9: 2.97

2011 Stats:

No MLB stats (12 IP in AA)

Many moons ago, Brandon Webb was a phenomenal sinker-ball pitcher for the Diamondbacks. He won the NL Cy Young award in 2006, and put together 6 great seasons in a row from ’03-’08. Unfortunately, Webb has been sidelined since 2008 having undergone numerous surgeries. Last year it cost the Rangers $3 million to sign Webb on a one-year deal — they got just 12 AA innings for there money. Chances are that price tag will be cut significantly this winter, so it might be worth the Blue Jays while to take a shot on someone who was once one of the best pitchers in baseball.

Jeff Francis:

2011 Contract: 1 year/ $2 mil

Career Stats:

W-L 61-66// ERA 4.78// WHIP 1.43// FIP 4.40// K-9: 5.86// BB-9: 2.75

2011 Stats:

W-L 6-16// ERA 4.82// WHIP 1.44// FIP 4.10// K-9: 4.48// BB-9: 1.92

Another B.C. native, Francis was picked up on the cheap last year by the Royals. He won’t wow you, but he could serve as a solid 5th starter on a good team. If he can be had around his 2011 price tag (1 year/$2 mil), I would consider giving him a shot at the back on the rotation.

Others they could consider: Justin Duchscherer, Bartolo Colon, Freddy GarciaLivan HernandezJoel PineiroJon Garland.

It is clear that Alex Anthopoulos’ plan for the Jays has been to bring in a lot of young, high-upside players. I absolutely love the way he has gone about this, making bold deals like Marcum for Lawrie, and dealing for talented guys like Brandon Morrow and Yunel Escobar when their values were low. What I’m suggesting is not a departure from his model, but simply a small way to supplement the young core. I don’t want to see the Jays sign old, middle of the road types that will take away at bats and innings from the young players. I just want to see the Jays play an active role on the free agent market, looking for value where ever it can be found. I believe that these are players who have the talent to make a major difference for the Jays. They could also continue to struggle and/or sit on the DL. That is a risk I think the Jays should be able to take, as there cost should be extremely low.

 Like what you read and want to stay informed on all updates here at Jays Journal? Follow Jared, Mat or I on Twitter (@Jared_Macdonald and @JaysJournal and @scottbarber87), “Like” our Facebook page, or grab ourRSS feed!

Topics: Brandon Webb, Brett Cecil, Jeff Francis, Kyle Drabek, Rich Harden, Toronto Blue Jays

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  • juanguzman

    why does everybody insist on signing a starter? is romero, morrow, cecil, mcgowan and alvarez sufficient enough? and if not, is it not good enough to get to the break when hutchinson, mcguire and molina or jenkins could be knocking on the mlb door? save the money and get some relief help and go get prince fielder. one exception to what i’m saying would be yu darvish. i would gladly welcome him to the jays.

  • juanguzman

    why does everybody insist on signing a starter? is romero, morrow, cecil, mcgowan and alvarez sufficient enough? and if not, is it not good enough to get to the break when hutchinson, mcguire and molina or jenkins could be knocking on the mlb door? save the money and get some relief help and go get prince fielder. one exception to what i’m saying would be yu darvish. i would gladly welcome him to the jays.

  • nearlydenzil

    We are pretty set in the starting rotation; the only guy here I’d want even competing for a job would be Rich Harden. Webb & Francis simply woulndn’t be upgrades over Cecil or Alvarez, and quite probably not over Jesse Litsch either.

  • nearlydenzil

    We are pretty set in the starting rotation; the only guy here I’d want even competing for a job would be Rich Harden. Webb & Francis simply woulndn’t be upgrades over Cecil or Alvarez, and quite probably not over Jesse Litsch either.

  • Jared_Macdonald

    Harden has always intrigued me. I could care less that he’s Canadian, there’s just so much ability and experience inside his glass frame. He’ll be lucky to give you more than 100 innings, but he hasn’t even turned 30 yet.

  • Jared_Macdonald

    Harden has always intrigued me. I could care less that he’s Canadian, there’s just so much ability and experience inside his glass frame. He’ll be lucky to give you more than 100 innings, but he hasn’t even turned 30 yet.

  • Jared_Macdonald

    @juanguzman Everybody insists on getting a starter because Jays starters ranked 25th in MLB with a 4.55 ERA and 27th with a 4.43 FIP this past season, both worse than the totals and rankings they managed in 2010.

    While it’s likely Alvarez and McGowan will open the year as the Jays’ No. 4 and 5 starters, there are no guarantees that either of them or Cecil are enough of a lock in the rotation to prevent Anthopoulos from pursuing another arm, likely a top of the rotation caliber none. Should make for an exciting offseason!

  • Jared_Macdonald

    @juanguzman Everybody insists on getting a starter because Jays starters ranked 25th in MLB with a 4.55 ERA and 27th with a 4.43 FIP this past season, both worse than the totals and rankings they managed in 2010.

    While it’s likely Alvarez and McGowan will open the year as the Jays’ No. 4 and 5 starters, there are no guarantees that either of them or Cecil are enough of a lock in the rotation to prevent Anthopoulos from pursuing another arm, likely a top of the rotation caliber none. Should make for an exciting offseason!

  • juanguzman

    my point for not signing another starter is to simply give the young guys some experience. by signing a “one year” pitcher, you are taking away valuable time for the young guys. morrow was as dominant as anybody the 2nd half of 2010. i believe he can back to that form. cecil won 15 games in 2010. i think he can back there also. alvarez showed great poise in his starts this year and we know what mcgowan is capable of. with all of that, i believe the jays are in good shape. they also have drabek, who i think they should move to set up man in the bullpen.

  • juanguzman

    my point for not signing another starter is to simply give the young guys some experience. by signing a “one year” pitcher, you are taking away valuable time for the young guys. morrow was as dominant as anybody the 2nd half of 2010. i believe he can back to that form. cecil won 15 games in 2010. i think he can back there also. alvarez showed great poise in his starts this year and we know what mcgowan is capable of. with all of that, i believe the jays are in good shape. they also have drabek, who i think they should move to set up man in the bullpen.

  • scottbarber

    I’d love to for the Jays to sign a top of the rotation calibre pitcher this off season. I just don’t think it’s a possibility. There are only really 2, possibly 3 (if Sabathia opts out) free agents that would fit the mold. I think that with the market for top quality starters being so thin this year, both Wilson and Buehrle are going to get bigger contracts than they deserve.

    As for the Jays rotation, I think both Cecil and Drabek are big question marks. They’ll both start the year in the rotation, but it is far from a guarantee that either will contribute all season long. As for McGowan, I would be shocked if he is starting games for the Jays next year.

    If the Jays are going to compete for a playoff spot next season they need to shore up the rotation. Like I said, it would be ideal for AA to sign Buehrle, Wilson or even Sabathia, I just don’t think it’s possible.

  • scottbarber

    I’d love to for the Jays to sign a top of the rotation calibre pitcher this off season. I just don’t think it’s a possibility. There are only really 2, possibly 3 (if Sabathia opts out) free agents that would fit the mold. I think that with the market for top quality starters being so thin this year, both Wilson and Buehrle are going to get bigger contracts than they deserve.

    As for the Jays rotation, I think both Cecil and Drabek are big question marks. They’ll both start the year in the rotation, but it is far from a guarantee that either will contribute all season long. As for McGowan, I would be shocked if he is starting games for the Jays next year.

    If the Jays are going to compete for a playoff spot next season they need to shore up the rotation. Like I said, it would be ideal for AA to sign Buehrle, Wilson or even Sabathia, I just don’t think it’s possible.

  • scottbarber

    I’d love for the Jays to sign a top of the rotation calibre pitcher this off season. I just don’t think it’s a possibility. There are only really 2, possibly 3 (if Sabathia opts out) free agents that would fit the mold. I think that with the market for top quality starters being so thin this year, both Wilson and Buehrle are going to get bigger contracts than they deserve.

    As for the Jays rotation, I think both Cecil and Drabek are big question marks. They’ll both start the year in the rotation, but it is far from a guarantee that either will contribute all season long. As for McGowan, I would be shocked if he is starting games for the Jays next year.

    If the Jays are going to compete for a playoff spot next season they need to shore up the rotation. Like I said, it would be ideal for AA to sign Buehrle, Wilson or even Sabathia, I just don’t think it’s possible.

  • scottbarber

    I’d love for the Jays to sign a top of the rotation calibre pitcher this off season. I just don’t think it’s a possibility. There are only really 2, possibly 3 (if Sabathia opts out) free agents that would fit the mold. I think that with the market for top quality starters being so thin this year, both Wilson and Buehrle are going to get bigger contracts than they deserve.

    As for the Jays rotation, I think both Cecil and Drabek are big question marks. They’ll both start the year in the rotation, but it is far from a guarantee that either will contribute all season long. As for McGowan, I would be shocked if he is starting games for the Jays next year.

    If the Jays are going to compete for a playoff spot next season they need to shore up the rotation. Like I said, it would be ideal for AA to sign Buehrle, Wilson or even Sabathia, I just don’t think it’s possible.

  • christhompson14

    They Yankees had to take flyers on those guys because they had their top guys set and no real options coming up from the minors. The Jays are in a totally different position, they have lots of guys that could be 4-5 starters on a good team, but not enough top of the rotation talent. They have enough depth in the minors that they don’t need to waste money on a Bartolo Colon. What they don’t have is anyone consistent behind Romero. They need a #2 or a 1A. Please do not tell me Morrow is that guy because as much as I wish he was he is not consistent enough to be a #2. He has great stuff but their is more to pitching then just great stuff. He could be a good #3 with maybe Alvarez as a #4 and Cecil or Drabek as a #5. If we are talking about trying to make a playoff run next year then the rotation needs to look like this:

    1-Romero

    2- Someone from outside the organisation ( Matt Latos, Anibal Sanchez, Trevor Cahill)

    3-Morrow

    4-Alvarez (He already is a better pitcher than Cecil/Drabek in my opinion)

    5- Drabek/Cecil/McGowan

    I’m sorry but I don’t like Cecil in the AL East. I wish he was better but he’s not. I think he could win 15 games for the Padres but not for the Jays. He just gets hit too much. Alvarez has the perfect stuff to pitch in the AL East because he is so good at getting ground balls. McGowan used to have the stuff, I could see him as a long man in the pen, or coming up from AAA for a few spot starts during the season. I really hope Drabek figures it out this offseason and grabs that #5 spot during spring training. If he doesn’t then I think you make him our closer, but that’s for another post.

  • christhompson14

    They Yankees had to take flyers on those guys because they had their top guys set and no real options coming up from the minors. The Jays are in a totally different position, they have lots of guys that could be 4-5 starters on a good team, but not enough top of the rotation talent. They have enough depth in the minors that they don’t need to waste money on a Bartolo Colon. What they don’t have is anyone consistent behind Romero. They need a #2 or a 1A. Please do not tell me Morrow is that guy because as much as I wish he was he is not consistent enough to be a #2. He has great stuff but their is more to pitching then just great stuff. He could be a good #3 with maybe Alvarez as a #4 and Cecil or Drabek as a #5. If we are talking about trying to make a playoff run next year then the rotation needs to look like this:

    1-Romero

    2- Someone from outside the organisation ( Matt Latos, Anibal Sanchez, Trevor Cahill)

    3-Morrow

    4-Alvarez (He already is a better pitcher than Cecil/Drabek in my opinion)

    5- Drabek/Cecil/McGowan

    I’m sorry but I don’t like Cecil in the AL East. I wish he was better but he’s not. I think he could win 15 games for the Padres but not for the Jays. He just gets hit too much. Alvarez has the perfect stuff to pitch in the AL East because he is so good at getting ground balls. McGowan used to have the stuff, I could see him as a long man in the pen, or coming up from AAA for a few spot starts during the season. I really hope Drabek figures it out this offseason and grabs that #5 spot during spring training. If he doesn’t then I think you make him our closer, but that’s for another post.

  • ace frehley

    Harden’s a big worry for me, loads of talent but you can’t build on 100 inning guys.

  • ace frehley

    Harden’s a big worry for me, loads of talent but you can’t build on 100 inning guys.

  • keith72

    @christhompson14 Agreed that we need a #2 starter. I like the Latos and Sanchez & Cahill ideas and would add guys like Jonathan Sanchez or Matt Cain into the mix as they will both be free agents after 2012. However for the Jays to send down McGowan to AAA, he would need to clear waivers. Which will not happen. Also the Jays have said repeatedly that they will not move McGowan to the pen on the basis of medical reports. So McGowan is your #5 starter unless he gets injured.

    Morrow will be just fine. He was in his 2nd full season as a starting pitcher and as most do, he regressed. If they get Darvish or trade for one of the guys you have identified, we can send Cecil to the pen (assuming he is not included in a deal) where he will be just fine.

    Drabek is the wild card. If he can learn to keep his emotions under control and pitch vs. throw, he has the top of the rotation stuff we need in the East.

    I had been so focused on the Jays going after a top of the rotation guy, that I had not thought about them using their financial flexibility and taking “flyers” out on Harden and Webb. Both have the potential to be #2 starters on any team and should be relatively cheap (2 – 3M on single season deals). If they give us a 1/2 season we can then supplement with what we have in AA. Or perhaps Drabek has proven himself by then. I starting to like this option way more as it has the added flexibility of moving a guy like Harden or Webb into the closer position. It also won’t cost us the farm or picks next year.

  • keith72

    @christhompson14 Agreed that we need a #2 starter. I like the Latos and Sanchez & Cahill ideas and would add guys like Jonathan Sanchez or Matt Cain into the mix as they will both be free agents after 2012. However for the Jays to send down McGowan to AAA, he would need to clear waivers. Which will not happen. Also the Jays have said repeatedly that they will not move McGowan to the pen on the basis of medical reports. So McGowan is your #5 starter unless he gets injured.

    Morrow will be just fine. He was in his 2nd full season as a starting pitcher and as most do, he regressed. If they get Darvish or trade for one of the guys you have identified, we can send Cecil to the pen (assuming he is not included in a deal) where he will be just fine.

    Drabek is the wild card. If he can learn to keep his emotions under control and pitch vs. throw, he has the top of the rotation stuff we need in the East.

    I had been so focused on the Jays going after a top of the rotation guy, that I had not thought about them using their financial flexibility and taking “flyers” out on Harden and Webb. Both have the potential to be #2 starters on any team and should be relatively cheap (2 – 3M on single season deals). If they give us a 1/2 season we can then supplement with what we have in AA. Or perhaps Drabek has proven himself by then. I starting to like this option way more as it has the added flexibility of moving a guy like Harden or Webb into the closer position. It also won’t cost us the farm or picks next year.

  • juanguzman

    i’d like to address some views. “shocked if mcgowan is in the rotation next year”. do you think he will sign elsewhere after the patience the jays showed with him? he will be back out of loyalty. do you think they will give up on him? he won 12 games and had an era of just over 4 in his last full season. he will certainly not be beaten out by anybody. “cecil cannot pitch in the al east”. in 2010 he made 13 starts against al east foes. he went 9-2 with a 3.42 era. sounds to me like he CAN pitch in the al east. don’t give up on a young lefty who had an off season. next years rotation should be…… romero, darvish, morrow, mcgowan and alvarez. and as far as signing these “re-treads”, did the dana eveland signing work out last year? NO! go with the young guys and build a powerhouse in toronto once again. GO JAYS!!!

  • juanguzman

    i’d like to address some views. “shocked if mcgowan is in the rotation next year”. do you think he will sign elsewhere after the patience the jays showed with him? he will be back out of loyalty. do you think they will give up on him? he won 12 games and had an era of just over 4 in his last full season. he will certainly not be beaten out by anybody. “cecil cannot pitch in the al east”. in 2010 he made 13 starts against al east foes. he went 9-2 with a 3.42 era. sounds to me like he CAN pitch in the al east. don’t give up on a young lefty who had an off season. next years rotation should be…… romero, darvish, morrow, mcgowan and alvarez. and as far as signing these “re-treads”, did the dana eveland signing work out last year? NO! go with the young guys and build a powerhouse in toronto once again. GO JAYS!!!

  • scottbarber

    That last full season was 2007… I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in those numbers in terms of predicting future results. I think McGowan’s going to be used out of the pen, but I would be happy to be proven wrong next year.

    Also, Eveland isn’t/wasn’t anywhere near the calibre of pitcher that Harden and Webb have been in the past.

  • scottbarber

    That last full season was 2007… I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in those numbers in terms of predicting future results. I think McGowan’s going to be used out of the pen, but I would be happy to be proven wrong next year.

    Also, Eveland isn’t/wasn’t anywhere near the calibre of pitcher that Harden and Webb have been in the past.

  • Jared_Macdonald

    Guys, loving the comments, keep them coming!

    I had initially ruled out the possibility of signing one of the reclamation projects that Scott outlined in his article due to the number of arms the Jays have, but with so much uncertainty over the back end of the rotation, it’s not out of the question.

    Here’s something to stir the pot: could the Jays sign a mid to front of the rotation starter like Anthopoulos has mentioned (Darvish/Buehrle) AND sign a high-risk, high-reward hurler to fill, say, a No. 4 spot?

    Drabek will likely be ticketed for the minor leagues when the season opens, no matter how good of a spring he has, to build confidence and get things together mentally. Cecil’s a wild card; he could start the year in the rotation, the bullpen, or in the minors as well depending on what moves are made over the offseason.

    I’ve loved every pitch of Alvarez’s season and was there for his debut, but there’s an outside chance that even HE starts 2012 in the minor leagues to fully develop his third pitch. I saw him work on it with Romero and Walton in spring training, and Farrell reinforced that by saying it was a priority when Alvarez was called up this year. I think Alvarez has a lot more confidence than Drabek already and will go after hitters, but, just like the Rays did with a guy like Jeremy Hellickson, even a few solid months at the Major League level don’t mean that the pitcher can’t be sent back to the minors to finish working a few things.

    As for McGowan, he too is a wild card, though he’ll break camp with the Jays out of spring training no matter what, even if struggles. He’s out of options, and there’s no way the Jays would let go of him. So, assuming he’s healthy and can’t go on the DL, it seems likely that he’ll slot in as the Jays’ No. 5 starter to start the year or at least be toyed with in the ‘pen. I’d prefer to see him go for it in the rotation, personally. The biggest thing with McGowan will be health, and with that will be a strict watch on his innings. If he can stay healthy for the entire season, though, as AA mentioned, he could be a fantastic surprise for the team heading into 2013.

    The only locks for the rotation right now are Romero and Morrow and, to a lesser extent, McGowan, as it’d be his job to lose almost. After that, things get cloudy, with Cecil and Alvarez likely to make the rotation but far from guaranteed.

  • Jared_Macdonald

    Guys, loving the comments, keep them coming!

    I had initially ruled out the possibility of signing one of the reclamation projects that Scott outlined in his article due to the number of arms the Jays have, but with so much uncertainty over the back end of the rotation, it’s not out of the question.

    Here’s something to stir the pot: could the Jays sign a mid to front of the rotation starter like Anthopoulos has mentioned (Darvish/Buehrle) AND sign a high-risk, high-reward hurler to fill, say, a No. 4 spot?

    Drabek will likely be ticketed for the minor leagues when the season opens, no matter how good of a spring he has, to build confidence and get things together mentally. Cecil’s a wild card; he could start the year in the rotation, the bullpen, or in the minors as well depending on what moves are made over the offseason.

    I’ve loved every pitch of Alvarez’s season and was there for his debut, but there’s an outside chance that even HE starts 2012 in the minor leagues to fully develop his third pitch. I saw him work on it with Romero and Walton in spring training, and Farrell reinforced that by saying it was a priority when Alvarez was called up this year. I think Alvarez has a lot more confidence than Drabek already and will go after hitters, but, just like the Rays did with a guy like Jeremy Hellickson, even a few solid months at the Major League level don’t mean that the pitcher can’t be sent back to the minors to finish working a few things.

    As for McGowan, he too is a wild card, though he’ll break camp with the Jays out of spring training no matter what, even if struggles. He’s out of options, and there’s no way the Jays would let go of him. So, assuming he’s healthy and can’t go on the DL, it seems likely that he’ll slot in as the Jays’ No. 5 starter to start the year or at least be toyed with in the ‘pen. I’d prefer to see him go for it in the rotation, personally. The biggest thing with McGowan will be health, and with that will be a strict watch on his innings. If he can stay healthy for the entire season, though, as AA mentioned, he could be a fantastic surprise for the team heading into 2013.

    The only locks for the rotation right now are Romero and Morrow and, to a lesser extent, McGowan, as it’d be his job to lose almost. After that, things get cloudy, with Cecil and Alvarez likely to make the rotation but far from guaranteed.

  • Jared_Macdonald

    @juanguzman I agree with you about McGowan. It’s interesting that Cecil can pitch in the AL East but you didn’t include him in your projected rotation. All jokes aside, the key is going to be patience and not rushing prospects up to the Bigs before they’re ready. It’s annoying to some people and that’s definitely understandable, but the future payoffs should be worth it!

  • Jared_Macdonald

    @juanguzman I agree with you about McGowan. It’s interesting that Cecil can pitch in the AL East but you didn’t include him in your projected rotation. All jokes aside, the key is going to be patience and not rushing prospects up to the Bigs before they’re ready. It’s annoying to some people and that’s definitely understandable, but the future payoffs should be worth it!

  • juanguzman

    @Jared_Macdonald you had to catch that, didn’t you. after i posted my comment, i thought “oops”. anyhow , i didn’t include him in the rotation because of darvish. i think he will be in the rotation if darvish is not signed and in the bullpen at very least. was he not a closer in college? just something to consider. set-up guy?

  • juanguzman

    @Jared_Macdonald you had to catch that, didn’t you. after i posted my comment, i thought “oops”. anyhow , i didn’t include him in the rotation because of darvish. i think he will be in the rotation if darvish is not signed and in the bullpen at very least. was he not a closer in college? just something to consider. set-up guy?

  • Jared_Macdonald

    Haha no problem, and yeah it’s definitely something to consider.

  • Jared_Macdonald

    Haha no problem, and yeah it’s definitely something to consider.

  • ace frehley

    I don’t share the enthusiasm for McGowan, I think his ship has sailed. It makes for a great story but comebacks like he’s attempting are rare indeed. Hope I’m wrong.

  • ace frehley

    I don’t share the enthusiasm for McGowan, I think his ship has sailed. It makes for a great story but comebacks like he’s attempting are rare indeed. Hope I’m wrong.

  • whysodevious

    Makes absolutely no sense for the Blue Jays. Regardless of the fact that Beeston, Farrell and Anthopoulos have all openly stated that they most definitely are not looking for back-of-the-rotation starters and if they do go for pitching, it’ll be for someone who can throw ’200 quality innings’, not only would be taking a risk and wasting money on these pitchers, but we’d be creating a whole new problem. With Romero, Morrow and Alvarez as the 1,2,3 pitchers, we only have two spots in the rotation left as it is. With Drabek, McGowan and Cecil, it becomes awfully crowded, and it is absolutely mandatory that the Blue Jays have space for their minor league pitchers for next year. Hutchison, Molina and McGuire are all expected to be up for a trial run at the majors at some point next year. On top of all of this, there are rumors that the Blue Jays may be contenders for CJ Wilson’s services next year and many are also saying that the Jays are the favorites to sign Darvish. Even if they don’t acquire either of these pitchers (though AA has said he really wants top of the rotation pitching), you already have an incredible log jam of a rotation. It would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to hire a veteran pitcher to take up yet another space, and this is exactly why the Jays brass has already say that they won’t be shopping for older guys. If anything, you could in fact consider Dustin McGowan as the exact kind of pitcher that you are looking for. Just came off an injury, has good upside, and used to be a proven starting pitcher. What exactly is the reasoning behind giving all those other guys that you mentioned any priority over McGowan.

  • whysodevious

    Makes absolutely no sense for the Blue Jays. Regardless of the fact that Beeston, Farrell and Anthopoulos have all openly stated that they most definitely are not looking for back-of-the-rotation starters and if they do go for pitching, it’ll be for someone who can throw ’200 quality innings’, not only would be taking a risk and wasting money on these pitchers, but we’d be creating a whole new problem. With Romero, Morrow and Alvarez as the 1,2,3 pitchers, we only have two spots in the rotation left as it is. With Drabek, McGowan and Cecil, it becomes awfully crowded, and it is absolutely mandatory that the Blue Jays have space for their minor league pitchers for next year. Hutchison, Molina and McGuire are all expected to be up for a trial run at the majors at some point next year. On top of all of this, there are rumors that the Blue Jays may be contenders for CJ Wilson’s services next year and many are also saying that the Jays are the favorites to sign Darvish. Even if they don’t acquire either of these pitchers (though AA has said he really wants top of the rotation pitching), you already have an incredible log jam of a rotation. It would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to hire a veteran pitcher to take up yet another space, and this is exactly why the Jays brass has already say that they won’t be shopping for older guys. If anything, you could in fact consider Dustin McGowan as the exact kind of pitcher that you are looking for. Just came off an injury, has good upside, and used to be a proven starting pitcher. What exactly is the reasoning behind giving all those other guys that you mentioned any priority over McGowan.

  • scottbarber

    If we can get Darvish or Wilson than this idea is obviously out the window- but I believe the chances of either being signed by the Jays are slim. The cost and demand are going going to be huge for each.

    McGowan has never put up anywhere near the numbers that Harden and Webb have in their careers. He also didn’t do much in his 21 innings this season to suggest that he warrants a spot in the rotation next year.

    The point of the post was to suggest that because Cecil, Drabek and Alvarez (he was good, but he is still extremely young/inexperienced) are question marks for 2012, the Jays should consider a cheap, high-upside type. Granted, Francis was a stretch, but I would stand by the notion that the Jays should think about inexpensive 1 year deals for Webb or Harden.

  • scottbarber

    If we can get Darvish or Wilson than this idea is obviously out the window- but I believe the chances of either being signed by the Jays are slim. The cost and demand are going going to be huge for each.

    McGowan has never put up anywhere near the numbers that Harden and Webb have in their careers. He also didn’t do much in his 21 innings this season to suggest that he warrants a spot in the rotation next year.

    The point of the post was to suggest that because Cecil, Drabek and Alvarez (he was good, but he is still extremely young/inexperienced) are question marks for 2012, the Jays should consider a cheap, high-upside type. Granted, Francis was a stretch, but I would stand by the notion that the Jays should think about inexpensive 1 year deals for Webb or Harden.

  • scottbarber

    @whysodevious

    If we can get Darvish or Wilson than this idea is obviously out the window- but I believe the chances of either being signed by the Jays are slim. The cost and demand are going going to be huge for each.

    McGowan has never put up anywhere near the numbers that Harden and Webb have in their careers. He also didn’t do much in his 21 innings this season to suggest that he warrants a spot in the rotation next year.

    The point of the post was to suggest that because Cecil, Drabek and Alvarez (he was good, but he is still extremely young/inexperienced) are question marks for 2012, the Jays should consider a cheap, high-upside type. Granted, Francis was a stretch, but I would stand by the notion that the Jays should think about inexpensive 1 year deals for Webb or Harden.

  • scottbarber

    @whysodevious

    If we can get Darvish or Wilson than this idea is obviously out the window- but I believe the chances of either being signed by the Jays are slim. The cost and demand are going going to be huge for each.

    McGowan has never put up anywhere near the numbers that Harden and Webb have in their careers. He also didn’t do much in his 21 innings this season to suggest that he warrants a spot in the rotation next year.

    The point of the post was to suggest that because Cecil, Drabek and Alvarez (he was good, but he is still extremely young/inexperienced) are question marks for 2012, the Jays should consider a cheap, high-upside type. Granted, Francis was a stretch, but I would stand by the notion that the Jays should think about inexpensive 1 year deals for Webb or Harden.

  • scottbarber

    @whysodevious

    If the Jays can get Darvish or Wilson than this idea is obviously out the window- but I believe the chances of either being signed by the Jays are slim. The cost and demand are going going to be huge for each.

    McGowan has never put up anywhere near the numbers that Harden and Webb have in their careers. He also didn’t do much in his 21 innings this season to suggest that he warrants a spot in the rotation next year.

    The point of the post was to suggest that because Cecil, Drabek and Alvarez (he was good, but he is still extremely young/inexperienced) are question marks for 2012, the Jays should consider a cheap, high-upside type. Granted, Francis was a stretch, but I would stand by the notion that the Jays should think about inexpensive 1 year deals for Webb or Harden.

  • scottbarber

    @whysodevious

    If the Jays can get Darvish or Wilson than this idea is obviously out the window- but I believe the chances of either being signed by the Jays are slim. The cost and demand are going going to be huge for each.

    McGowan has never put up anywhere near the numbers that Harden and Webb have in their careers. He also didn’t do much in his 21 innings this season to suggest that he warrants a spot in the rotation next year.

    The point of the post was to suggest that because Cecil, Drabek and Alvarez (he was good, but he is still extremely young/inexperienced) are question marks for 2012, the Jays should consider a cheap, high-upside type. Granted, Francis was a stretch, but I would stand by the notion that the Jays should think about inexpensive 1 year deals for Webb or Harden.