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	<title>Comments on: The Future of the Jays Pen: Jonathan Papelbon and Ryan Madson?</title>
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	<description>A Toronto Blue Jays Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More</description>
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		<title>By: talesen</title>
		<link>http://jaysjournal.com/2011/08/07/the-future-of-the-jays-pen-jonathan-papelbon-and-ryan-madson/comment-page-1/#comment-950385</link>
		<dc:creator>talesen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 12:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaysjournal.com/?p=8640#comment-950385</guid>
		<description>Great analysis... tho I&#039;d like to see what kind of contracts the Jays would be looking at to lure those guys on your list.  My guess is &quot;not even reasonable&quot; after seeing what kind of contracts the bigger name relievers got last year.  I don&#039;t think AA has been anything but crystal that he does not value relievers because of their cost per volatitliy.

 

It would be an interesting about-face, should he dip into the &#039;A&#039; list of relievers, which he may have to do if he wants to turn 2012 into a contending year.

 

What place do the Jays have to finish to get the 1st round draft protection?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great analysis&#8230; tho I&#8217;d like to see what kind of contracts the Jays would be looking at to lure those guys on your list.  My guess is &#8220;not even reasonable&#8221; after seeing what kind of contracts the bigger name relievers got last year.  I don&#8217;t think AA has been anything but crystal that he does not value relievers because of their cost per volatitliy.</p>
<p>It would be an interesting about-face, should he dip into the &#8216;A&#8217; list of relievers, which he may have to do if he wants to turn 2012 into a contending year.</p>
<p>What place do the Jays have to finish to get the 1st round draft protection?</p>
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		<title>By: MLip</title>
		<link>http://jaysjournal.com/2011/08/07/the-future-of-the-jays-pen-jonathan-papelbon-and-ryan-madson/comment-page-1/#comment-950384</link>
		<dc:creator>MLip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 01:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Love the site Mat, keep up the great work!Looking at last year, I do not see the Jays going after the marquee relievers as you suggest. Last season the Jays filled their bullpen needs with second-tier talent and not the top-tier talent you suggest. Soriano, Benoit, Crain, Downs, Fuentes, Gregg, Putz all signed multi-year deals for more money than the Jays offered any of their current relievers. My guess is that AA is not the type to offer multi-year contracts to free-agent relievers, but perhaps if the right guy comes a long he would. Unless there is someone AA really wants (because AA always gets his man) my guess is that Alex signs guys similar to those he signed last off-season, or trades to get a young and controllable arm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the site Mat, keep up the great work!Looking at last year, I do not see the Jays going after the marquee relievers as you suggest. Last season the Jays filled their bullpen needs with second-tier talent and not the top-tier talent you suggest. Soriano, Benoit, Crain, Downs, Fuentes, Gregg, Putz all signed multi-year deals for more money than the Jays offered any of their current relievers. My guess is that AA is not the type to offer multi-year contracts to free-agent relievers, but perhaps if the right guy comes a long he would. Unless there is someone AA really wants (because AA always gets his man) my guess is that Alex signs guys similar to those he signed last off-season, or trades to get a young and controllable arm.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott29</title>
		<link>http://jaysjournal.com/2011/08/07/the-future-of-the-jays-pen-jonathan-papelbon-and-ryan-madson/comment-page-1/#comment-950383</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 00:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaysjournal.com/?p=8640#comment-950383</guid>
		<description>Great article, but what about Villanueava?  I don&#039;t see him mentioned as a future starter or reliever in the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, but what about Villanueava?  I don&#8217;t see him mentioned as a future starter or reliever in the article.</p>
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		<title>By: keith72</title>
		<link>http://jaysjournal.com/2011/08/07/the-future-of-the-jays-pen-jonathan-papelbon-and-ryan-madson/comment-page-1/#comment-950382</link>
		<dc:creator>keith72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 23:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaysjournal.com/?p=8640#comment-950382</guid>
		<description>Nice article,

 

However I can&#039;t agree with your conclusion. Unless we see attendance hit 2.5 - 3M this year, AA will continue to use a piece meal solution in the pen. The pen is the last place you target for a contender and there are still too many unknowns:

1 - will Lawrie stick? and will it be at 3B? I still think that there are some in the organization who see him in LF.

2 - who is our long term LF solution? Thames and Snider have done nothing to consider this position safe for the long term.

3 - we are still short a starting pitcher.....I don&#039;t think that we take a wild card with 2 rookies in starting rotation....and what if McGowan makes it all the way back?

4 - Is JP the solution behind the plate? Or is the team better with JP at 1B and D&#039;Arnaud behind the plate?

5 - the black hole we have at 2B.

6 - Are we getting the 2010 or 2011 version of Colby Rasmus? 

 

Given all of these questions, I see AA holding off in the off season and targeting a starter via trade or Yu Darvish. I don&#039;t think he will give large coin to a closer simply because of what you said, there are far too many starting pitchers coming up the ranks who may not have a place  in this rotation. If they don&#039;t have a place in the rotation what use are they? We don&#039;t keep them for AAA. So:

1 - they can either be surplus and used in a trade OR

2 - We use them out of the pen.

 

Lastly if the attendance is good at the start of next year and the club starts off strong, he can likely deal these young arms for a established closer in a deal that some say he is over paying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article,</p>
<p>However I can&#8217;t agree with your conclusion. Unless we see attendance hit 2.5 &#8211; 3M this year, AA will continue to use a piece meal solution in the pen. The pen is the last place you target for a contender and there are still too many unknowns:</p>
<p>1 &#8211; will Lawrie stick? and will it be at 3B? I still think that there are some in the organization who see him in LF.</p>
<p>2 &#8211; who is our long term LF solution? Thames and Snider have done nothing to consider this position safe for the long term.</p>
<p>3 &#8211; we are still short a starting pitcher&#8230;..I don&#8217;t think that we take a wild card with 2 rookies in starting rotation&#8230;.and what if McGowan makes it all the way back?</p>
<p>4 &#8211; Is JP the solution behind the plate? Or is the team better with JP at 1B and D&#8217;Arnaud behind the plate?</p>
<p>5 &#8211; the black hole we have at 2B.</p>
<p>6 &#8211; Are we getting the 2010 or 2011 version of Colby Rasmus? </p>
<p>Given all of these questions, I see AA holding off in the off season and targeting a starter via trade or Yu Darvish. I don&#8217;t think he will give large coin to a closer simply because of what you said, there are far too many starting pitchers coming up the ranks who may not have a place  in this rotation. If they don&#8217;t have a place in the rotation what use are they? We don&#8217;t keep them for AAA. So:</p>
<p>1 &#8211; they can either be surplus and used in a trade OR</p>
<p>2 &#8211; We use them out of the pen.</p>
<p>Lastly if the attendance is good at the start of next year and the club starts off strong, he can likely deal these young arms for a established closer in a deal that some say he is over paying.</p>
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		<title>By: Mylegacy</title>
		<link>http://jaysjournal.com/2011/08/07/the-future-of-the-jays-pen-jonathan-papelbon-and-ryan-madson/comment-page-1/#comment-950381</link>
		<dc:creator>Mylegacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 16:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaysjournal.com/?p=8640#comment-950381</guid>
		<description>Mat

 

Interesting and provocative as always. I was actually (almost) eating out of your hand until you said - gasp - gulp - we might keep blah,blah,blah,Rauch,blah,blah,blah - personally I would rather give up scotch for two years (er - make that two days - I don&#039;t want to be too extreme) than have Rauch within 6,000 miles of my ballpark. Other than that - I sorta liked your piece.

 

Last year AA brought in THREE potential closers - (don&#039;t ask) Dotel, the (San) Francisco Treat and last and least, the (cock) Rauch. Surely, one of them had to be more reliable than a 1953 Studebaker - but - sigh - they weren&#039;t. And I kinda liked the 1953 Studebaker (just in case you didn&#039;t know it was the first Italian designed American car - not that that did it any good).

 

The Jays REAL PROBLEM this off-season is that the offense is getting mostly manned by actual legitimate &quot;contending quality&quot; bodies while the pitching is still a fair ways from being a contending group of starters and relievers. AA&#039;s biggest problem is that the first wave of pitchers that will replenish the starters and fill the bullpen (Alvarez, Hutchison, Molina, McGuire, Carreno, Jenkins and AsherW) are all a half a year to a year and a half away from being HONESTLY ready for prime time. SO - does AA blow the bank to &quot;bridge&quot; that 6 to 18 month period? I think he WON&#039;T.

 

I think he wants to see HIS PLAN through and while he&#039;ll go get some shiny pieces to complement the existing players - I just don&#039;t see him making a BIG splash this off-season.....unless....he can actually get the rights to and then sign Yu Darvish.

 

IF that happens then all bets are off - and the FUTURE may just become NOW - and fasten your seat belts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mat</p>
<p>Interesting and provocative as always. I was actually (almost) eating out of your hand until you said &#8211; gasp &#8211; gulp &#8211; we might keep blah,blah,blah,Rauch,blah,blah,blah &#8211; personally I would rather give up scotch for two years (er &#8211; make that two days &#8211; I don&#8217;t want to be too extreme) than have Rauch within 6,000 miles of my ballpark. Other than that &#8211; I sorta liked your piece.</p>
<p>Last year AA brought in THREE potential closers &#8211; (don&#8217;t ask) Dotel, the (San) Francisco Treat and last and least, the (cock) Rauch. Surely, one of them had to be more reliable than a 1953 Studebaker &#8211; but &#8211; sigh &#8211; they weren&#8217;t. And I kinda liked the 1953 Studebaker (just in case you didn&#8217;t know it was the first Italian designed American car &#8211; not that that did it any good).</p>
<p>The Jays REAL PROBLEM this off-season is that the offense is getting mostly manned by actual legitimate &#8220;contending quality&#8221; bodies while the pitching is still a fair ways from being a contending group of starters and relievers. AA&#8217;s biggest problem is that the first wave of pitchers that will replenish the starters and fill the bullpen (Alvarez, Hutchison, Molina, McGuire, Carreno, Jenkins and AsherW) are all a half a year to a year and a half away from being HONESTLY ready for prime time. SO &#8211; does AA blow the bank to &#8220;bridge&#8221; that 6 to 18 month period? I think he WON&#8217;T.</p>
<p>I think he wants to see HIS PLAN through and while he&#8217;ll go get some shiny pieces to complement the existing players &#8211; I just don&#8217;t see him making a BIG splash this off-season&#8230;..unless&#8230;.he can actually get the rights to and then sign Yu Darvish.</p>
<p>IF that happens then all bets are off &#8211; and the FUTURE may just become NOW &#8211; and fasten your seat belts!</p>
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