Comments on: Jays Rotation Grading At The Break

By: gnor

gnor — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 11:19:47 +0000

There was some thought a while back that Cecil might end up in the pen. He closed in college, and he could probably amp up his fastball to mid-90s range, with filthy stuff. With arms like Alvarez and Molina coming along, the rotation is soon going to be a very crowded place.

By: gnor

gnor — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 11:05:47 +0000

I didn’t say Carlos was an ace. I said he was probably the best pitcher on the staff right now. My point was that The Blue Jays at this point don’t have a true ace on their staff.

They may not in the near future either. If you look a couple of years down the road, and see a rotation made up of Morrow, Romero, Cecil, Drabek, and one of McGuire, Jenkins, Alvarez, Molina, etc., you have a rotation where any one of them could step up and be the go to guy at any time, It would be really hard to pick out an “ace” on a staff where everybody is good. @BMO BLUE JAY @gnor

By: BMO BLUE JAY

BMO BLUE JAY — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 21:30:34 +0000

@gnor I have to disagree with your “Ace” choice in Charlie V. Look at today’s game for instance. An “Ace” should have been all over the Yanks and Phil Hughes today with a shutdown effort. What we got was another consistent start by CV. 5 innings. But today 8 hits and 5 big runs against…..big difference today vs an attacking Yankee team vs. a down in the dumps Cleveland team he faced last time out. I know he had extra days off but an “Ace” overcomes that. I still think when it is over and done with this team Brendon Morrow will be the # 1 guy and Romero will be a very strong and solid # 2. CV has been put into a different role than intended and has done well. However, he is best suited for coming out of the pen and giving his best for 2 innings or so up or down on a regular basis.

Again, thats just the way I see it from my seat. Bottom line we both want to see them win more and hit consistently like they did Thursday & Friday and not like they did on Saturday & Sunday.

Cheers!

By: gnor

gnor — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 14:09:20 +0000

Matt, the fact that Doc and Marcum aren’t in the lineup will tell a lot about AA’s timeline, and it’s NOT now. Even with them, there’s no chance, because the bats aren’t there to hit good pitching (as they showed last night).

I disagree that Romero is the “Ace” as well. His won-lost record may not be an indicator of how well he has pitched, but it does show that he can’t go up against their #1 guy and win consistently. To be an ace, you forget about “quality starts” and pitch shutouts. You buckle their knees and screw them into the ground. You have them walking back to the dugout shaking their heads (see Halladay, Roy). IMHO, Brandon Morrow has the potential to be that ace, but he would have to be dominant from the first game through the last, and carry an innings load that would cripple others (again, see Halladay, Roy). As it stands now, I would vote for Carlos Villanueva for best pitcher in the rotation.

By: BMO BLUE JAY

BMO BLUE JAY — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 04:47:53 +0000

Good reviews on the staff. I think as well with the Trade deadline coming up some re-shuffling of the pen (for sure ) and the back end of the rotation is in order. Romero is for most part a-okay…usually 1 inning that beats him, Morrow is stepping it up and looking like himself from last year – nasty stuff – what we’ve been waiting on. Villanueva has been such a big surprise & saviour for us in the first have. He has been “Mr. Consistent”. Was extremely solid as 1st man out of the BP. When placed in starting role gave the team a solid 5+ innings with a chance to win just about each outing. I think he had one bad start and has been let down by the bullpen on several occasions(surprise). Cecial..has taken time to get his stuff together but I think last few starts showed he was successfully turning the corner. He can play a key role in the 2nd half and I don’t think he will let us down. That leaves the 5 spot. I am in no means sold on Reyes. If he can be moved and we get a bag of Double Bubble…we win. I just don’t think he has the mental toughness to come out of the pen to be that “situational” lefty guy. He just doesn’t bear down out there. Next option – Jesse Litsch – been there done that. – another inconsistent starter or if you prefer to classify him Forest Gumped – you don’t know what you”ll get from start to start. That takes you to either Las Vegas or trade options. We know we have some expendable assets both on the big league roster & at Vegas or Double A. Is this the time to pull that move. It would only be a temporary move in a sense as we fully expect to see Charley V. return to the pen at some point this summer and see one of: Drabek, Stewart or ? get recalled.

So is this the time to make that move for another starter?

By: keith72

keith72 — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:49:24 +0000

Great review Mat,

I agree with most of your evaluations except for Ricky. I see him a bit lower because he has not come up “big” in “big games”. That games in Boston where he gave up a big double to a struggling Darnell MacDonald who was swinging at breaking balls in the dirt was the epitome of what I am talking about. Until he learns to come up big in big games he won’t truly be an Ace and will just be holding that spot until a true “Ace” comes along. I will give you that this is Ricky first year leading the pitching staff and he has done well from that respect, but I am looking for more in the second half. His first big test is tonight when he squares off CC Sabithia

I would also rate JoJo much lower……28 straight losses, how can he get an almost average grade?

Lastly I think you have been a tad bit tough on Stewart. 2 of his 3 starts were good. He still has a shot to pull out a good season.

However this does make me wonder what we could have been if we still had Halliday. While I like Marcum’s leadership and his bulldog mentality, I think Lawrie’s bat in an everyday line up will make us forget Marcum every 5th day. Imagine a rotation of Halladay, Romero, Morrow & 2 out of Cecil, Villaneuva, Litsch or Drabek!!!!!

With Thames and Snider back and needing AB’s and Lawrie less than a month away (if he performs), we will have more than enough offense on an average day. Plus with Lawrie a dn Encarnacion and Davis we will be struggling to get everyone AB’s

I think that we still need to go after 2 areas:

1 – High ceiling 2B prospect. We have nothing in the upper minors right now in the middle. Until Heck starts hitting, he needs to stay in AA. But with Angels back in it and looking for relievers could we possibly wrangle Jean Segura out of them?

2 – more young pitching: you talked about Arizona and Tyler Skaggs in a recent post.

By: He's Done it Again!

He's Done it Again! — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:41:03 +0000

Props Mat on your ratings! Agree with just about everything and kudos for not going easy on young Drabek in your assessment. He has a special breed of confidence that he was strutting both in September 2010 and during Spring Training 2011. He deserves the F rating. If he wants to be considered a top talent and ultimately an every 5th day MLB pitcher, then tough cookies…. pitch like one, he gets an ‘F’ in my books too.

Morrow is in 3rd gear right now, he has a 4th and 5th gear he is gonna hit this second half with possible shift into light speed. Looking forward to it! Lets get Lawrie up trade a couple of those useless tits in the pen and win some ball games. Lets go Jays!!

By: NewSteve

NewSteve — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:13:47 +0000

Great articles Matt (including yesterdays about the hitters). I couldn’t agree more with your assessments. The only thing I would disagree with are the grades given to Drabek and Stewart. As rookies, I think their performances were on the lower end of the scale of what the expectations might be, but by no means were they failures. I do agree that Stewart will be better in the pen and I wouldn’t rush Drabek back. I also agree about Alvarez. Of the next wave of pitching prospects, he looks like the best. But I would bring up Carreno, Mills and even Jenkins before him. He’s young and there’s no point rushing him. Of all the pitchers the Jays would be willing to move, Villanueva might be the best trade chip at the deadline. I don’t think Reyes would bring much back, if anything. I always supported the idea of giving him a chance to see what he can do. Like you, I’ve seen enough. At least he filled in a gap in the rotation for three months. I was surprised that the Jays started McGowan’s rehab as early as they did. If I’m not mistaken, the Jays would have to either bring him up, place him back on the DL or expose him to waivers in early August.

By: dbenson1399

dbenson1399 — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:50:07 +0000

I agree with the grades for the most part, great job putting this together! My one qualm would be that everyone points to Romero’s record and points out how little wins and losses reflect a pitchers performance, which I agree, but then we here about Brett Cecil’s 15 wins last season. I don’t really see Cecil as a 15 win pitcher at this point and think he got pretty lucky last season. That said, I think he has potential and will be a average starter for the remainder of the season. Overall, a solid #4 or #5 in the rotation.