Comments on: J.P Ricciardi: Not a Total Failure Part #3 http://jaysjournal.com/2011/06/14/j-p-ricciardi-not-a-total-failure-part-3/ A Toronto Blue Jays Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:16:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: G Man http://jaysjournal.com/2011/06/14/j-p-ricciardi-not-a-total-failure-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4326 G Man Thu, 16 Jun 2011 04:36:37 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=8152#comment-4326 LOL @ noscout! I'm in your camp on this. I also feel that in spite of drafting some very good players, he also misevaluated what he had on hand on a number of occasions. I made my comments about Hinske on the first instalment. I never understood why Marcum was put in the pen his first full season after he had such a good second half as a starter the previous season. Lind was given the Shaun Green treatment a little bit. I am glad it seems to have worked out; he's a personal favourite. LOL @ noscout! I’m in your camp on this.

I also feel that in spite of drafting some very good players, he also misevaluated what he had on hand on a number of occasions. I made my comments about Hinske on the first instalment. I never understood why Marcum was put in the pen his first full season after he had such a good second half as a starter the previous season. Lind was given the Shaun Green treatment a little bit. I am glad it seems to have worked out; he’s a personal favourite.

]]> By: NoScoutHere http://jaysjournal.com/2011/06/14/j-p-ricciardi-not-a-total-failure-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4323 NoScoutHere Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:54:01 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=8152#comment-4323 JP threw out moneyball when Rogers gave him all that money to spend and he squandered it all. I don't blame Rogers for tightening the money leash on JP because he proved he didn't know what he was doing. So after 8 years we had Lind, Romero, JP, and a depleted farm system with a mega bloated payroll in Wells. What JP proved is that moneyball works if you don't give your GM too much money. Tell JP thanks for his 8 years of service and send him the book Moneyball to read. JP threw out moneyball when Rogers gave him all that money to spend and he squandered it all. I don’t blame Rogers for tightening the money leash on JP because he proved he didn’t know what he was doing.

So after 8 years we had Lind, Romero, JP, and a depleted farm system with a mega bloated payroll in Wells.

What JP proved is that moneyball works if you don’t give your GM too much money.

Tell JP thanks for his 8 years of service and send him the book Moneyball to read.

]]> By: Steve http://jaysjournal.com/2011/06/14/j-p-ricciardi-not-a-total-failure-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4322 Steve Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:04:03 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=8152#comment-4322 It wouldn't be a stretch to say that JP Ricciardi is the most hated person associated with the Blue jays. You just have to read the comments in the blogs to see. There are reasons. He told it the way he saw it, which I generally appreciated, but as a result he too often said stupid and offensive things. He was also cocky, which is generally good in the world of sports, but the greater your swagger, the better the results you ought to have to back it up and JP never accomplished the results. He made mistakes. IMO, he tried too quickly to put his mark on the team. He got rid of a lot of Gord Ash players without getting much in return. He mishandled Carlos Delgado. And finally, for me, his biggest mistake was making a run at the pennant when the overall talent on the team still wasn't deep enough to support it. The lack of depth was glaring when the injuries started piling up in 2007 and 2008. After saying all that, I still think he was a good GM. Most of the Gord Ash players that he got rid of only had 1 or 2 more decent years left in them with their new teams and he did keep the more successful players. Overall, I think his good moves out number his bad moves. There were some moves that looked good at the time but simply didn't work out because that happens. I always point to Gillick's trade of Alfredo Griffin and Dave Collins for Bill Caudill as an example. Griffen and Collins had become surplus players for the Jays and they were getting a closer in return. In the end, the Jays ended up giving away a plus defender at SS and a speedy OF for nothing because Caudill didn't work out. It was a wise move. It didn't work out. It happens to all GMs. Ricciardi had some of those and I'm sure AA will have his share. Ricciardi's drafting was also a lot better than what people give him credit for. Farm system rankings are nice but don't really tell us much at all. The true measure of how a GM did in drafting is looking at how many players became impact MLB players in comparison with his peers. You look at the historical drafts of every team and you'll see a lot of names you've never heard of before. Same for JP. But I think it was on this site that I saw his draftees rank #1 in WAR compared with other GMs over the same time period. So, he did something right. As for his refusal to go over-slot, a lot of that was as part of his philosophy of making safe draft picks. Another big part was out of necessity. He operated on a small budget during most of his tenure. Rogers also seems to have developed more realistic expectations over recent years in terms of what it takes to put a championhip team together. Keep in mind that Rogers was new to the sports ownership scene when they hired Ricciardi. Finally, there was the matter of the Currency Equalization Payments that Rogers received out of Bud Selig's discretionary spending fund. Because of that, the Jays had more pressure than the other 29 teams in MLB to not go over slot. I just wanted to add some support to the article. I think it's great that you're defending a guy who continues to get bashed in the media and the blogs almost two years after he left. It's too early to say that AA is a good GM. All indications are that he is, but we won't know for a few years yet how prudent his risks were. My bet is that when its all said and done AA is going to allow us to get past Gillick leaving us and Ricciardi will be the 4th best GM the Jays had - but a very decent 4th. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that JP Ricciardi is the most hated person associated with the Blue jays. You just have to read the comments in the blogs to see. There are reasons. He told it the way he saw it, which I generally appreciated, but as a result he too often said stupid and offensive things. He was also cocky, which is generally good in the world of sports, but the greater your swagger, the better the results you ought to have to back it up and JP never accomplished the results. He made mistakes. IMO, he tried too quickly to put his mark on the team. He got rid of a lot of Gord Ash players without getting much in return. He mishandled Carlos Delgado. And finally, for me, his biggest mistake was making a run at the pennant when the overall talent on the team still wasn’t deep enough to support it. The lack of depth was glaring when the injuries started piling up in 2007 and 2008. After saying all that, I still think he was a good GM. Most of the Gord Ash players that he got rid of only had 1 or 2 more decent years left in them with their new teams and he did keep the more successful players. Overall, I think his good moves out number his bad moves. There were some moves that looked good at the time but simply didn’t work out because that happens. I always point to Gillick’s trade of Alfredo Griffin and Dave Collins for Bill Caudill as an example. Griffen and Collins had become surplus players for the Jays and they were getting a closer in return. In the end, the Jays ended up giving away a plus defender at SS and a speedy OF for nothing because Caudill didn’t work out. It was a wise move. It didn’t work out. It happens to all GMs. Ricciardi had some of those and I’m sure AA will have his share. Ricciardi’s drafting was also a lot better than what people give him credit for. Farm system rankings are nice but don’t really tell us much at all. The true measure of how a GM did in drafting is looking at how many players became impact MLB players in comparison with his peers. You look at the historical drafts of every team and you’ll see a lot of names you’ve never heard of before. Same for JP. But I think it was on this site that I saw his draftees rank #1 in WAR compared with other GMs over the same time period. So, he did something right. As for his refusal to go over-slot, a lot of that was as part of his philosophy of making safe draft picks. Another big part was out of necessity. He operated on a small budget during most of his tenure. Rogers also seems to have developed more realistic expectations over recent years in terms of what it takes to put a championhip team together. Keep in mind that Rogers was new to the sports ownership scene when they hired Ricciardi. Finally, there was the matter of the Currency Equalization Payments that Rogers received out of Bud Selig’s discretionary spending fund. Because of that, the Jays had more pressure than the other 29 teams in MLB to not go over slot. I just wanted to add some support to the article. I think it’s great that you’re defending a guy who continues to get bashed in the media and the blogs almost two years after he left. It’s too early to say that AA is a good GM. All indications are that he is, but we won’t know for a few years yet how prudent his risks were. My bet is that when its all said and done AA is going to allow us to get past Gillick leaving us and Ricciardi will be the 4th best GM the Jays had – but a very decent 4th.

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