Comments on: Edwin Encarnacion: The Unproductive DH On The Block? http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/ A Toronto Blue Jays Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:16:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: wat http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3962 wat Mon, 16 May 2011 10:18:16 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3962 he hits like a crappy 150 pound shortstop and he can't field a position. he really doesn't belong in the majors at all he hits like a crappy 150 pound shortstop and he can’t field a position. he really doesn’t belong in the majors at all

]]> By: MrRedleg http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3956 MrRedleg Mon, 16 May 2011 02:04:06 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3956 I wish the Jays all the best - I have been to a few games in your stadium (even one at the old Exhibition Park). I want to say THANK YOU for taking Edwin E. off our hands and giving us Scott Rolen!! We suffered through several years of "iron-hands Edwin" at 3B. For the Reds, EE always started each season slowly, but he usually came on as a hitter by July or so and produced some runs (but still awful defensively at 3B). In 2007-2008 the Reds had about the worst defense in the majors, with EE at 3B, Adam Dunn in LF and Junior Griffey in RF (legs gone by then). Outfield defense was so bad that we had to play a 0.190-0.200 hitting defensive star in CF, to have a modicum of defense. SS was also awful, and Joey Votto was only just learning to play 1B (now he is superior at 1B defense). This was our collection in GABP, which is a hitters' park anyway. No wonder we lost! Everything changed when we traded EE, Dunn and Junior. Young, fast, defensively excellent players were inserted into the OF (O.K., LF is not excellent, but O.K.). And what a great leader Rolen has been, helping to pull together these young guys to make a team. In Cincy we say that Votto is our MVP, but Rolen is our MIP (most important player). So, thanks again for taking EE off our hands!! Oh yes, and thanks also, Toronto, for Joey Votto!! I wish the Jays all the best – I have been to a few games in your stadium (even one at the old Exhibition Park). I want to say THANK YOU for taking Edwin E. off our hands and giving us Scott Rolen!! We suffered through several years of “iron-hands Edwin” at 3B. For the Reds, EE always started each season slowly, but he usually came on as a hitter by July or so and produced some runs (but still awful defensively at 3B).

In 2007-2008 the Reds had about the worst defense in the majors, with EE at 3B, Adam Dunn in LF and Junior Griffey in RF (legs gone by then). Outfield defense was so bad that we had to play a 0.190-0.200 hitting defensive star in CF, to have a modicum of defense. SS was also awful, and Joey Votto was only just learning to play 1B (now he is superior at 1B defense). This was our collection in GABP, which is a hitters’ park anyway. No wonder we lost!

Everything changed when we traded EE, Dunn and Junior. Young, fast, defensively excellent players were inserted into the OF (O.K., LF is not excellent, but O.K.). And what a great leader Rolen has been, helping to pull together these young guys to make a team. In Cincy we say that Votto is our MVP, but Rolen is our MIP (most important player). So, thanks again for taking EE off our hands!! Oh yes, and thanks also, Toronto, for Joey Votto!!

]]> By: David Robson http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3923 David Robson Wed, 11 May 2011 21:10:35 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3923 E5 contract is fine... he just can't play 3rd base I mean I think the team lost 3-5 games just because of his defence and I'm scared every time he plays 3rd base everytime a ball is hit in to him. As for trade value give me a break anybody that has seen him play wonuldn't give anything up for him you'd be lucky to dump his contract. he has a decent bat and has hit a bunch of doubles, but still isn't that good overall. As for Jo Jo being traded he hasn't won a game in 3 years that eqauls zero trade value. I see he has potential, but when do you call these guys a bust and move on they both are costing the Jays many chances to win! E5 contract is fine… he just can’t play 3rd base I mean I think the team lost 3-5 games just because of his defence and I’m scared every time he plays 3rd base everytime a ball is hit in to him. As for trade value give me a break anybody that has seen him play wonuldn’t give anything up for him you’d be lucky to dump his contract. he has a decent bat and has hit a bunch of doubles, but still isn’t that good overall. As for Jo Jo being traded he hasn’t won a game in 3 years that eqauls zero trade value. I see he has potential, but when do you call these guys a bust and move on they both are costing the Jays many chances to win!

]]> By: OhEdwin http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3912 OhEdwin Tue, 10 May 2011 16:41:16 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3912 Can someone explain to me how he has no HR? He hit 4 in Spring Training and was leading the team with Bautista. Is it his swing? Is it the hitting coach? How has there been no discussion of this prior to this article being written? Is his lack of HR a concern for anyone in Toronto? If he was playing in some other market this would be a huge concern. Can someone explain to me how he has no HR? He hit 4 in Spring Training and was leading the team with Bautista. Is it his swing? Is it the hitting coach? How has there been no discussion of this prior to this article being written? Is his lack of HR a concern for anyone in Toronto? If he was playing in some other market this would be a huge concern.

]]> By: Steve2 http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3911 Steve2 Tue, 10 May 2011 12:31:12 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3911 I think it's a bit early to discount Edwin's bat. From what I've seen, he's a streaky hitter and was starting to hit well until he missed some games this year. He's off to a rough start, but one plus is a nice number of doubles (extra-base hits haven't been happening enough for the Jays). He wasn't brought back to the team to play 3B - he was to DH and spell Lind at 1B occasionally. Add to that the Bautista-would-be-better-at-3B pre-season mantra and how many spring training innings did Edwin get at 3B? I think a chunk of the blame should lie on the Jays - they really haven't put him in the best situation to succeed. All that said, he's costing the Jays very little and I must agree with TammyBeth's post above: this was a low-risk signing from the start. You point out some of the players that have performed better but missed a fair number of free agents that have done less (or the same for much more $$) - guys like Crawford and Ramirez - who many fans wished the Jays splurged over. He's even putting up similar offensive numbers than Overbay, who is making twice as much. I don't see trade value for Edwin. If he hits his ceiling, the Jays keep him and he's a valuable bat off the bench on a good team. If he never recovers, he's not brought back and someone else gets to take their chance on him. I think it’s a bit early to discount Edwin’s bat. From what I’ve seen, he’s a streaky hitter and was starting to hit well until he missed some games this year. He’s off to a rough start, but one plus is a nice number of doubles (extra-base hits haven’t been happening enough for the Jays).

He wasn’t brought back to the team to play 3B – he was to DH and spell Lind at 1B occasionally. Add to that the Bautista-would-be-better-at-3B pre-season mantra and how many spring training innings did Edwin get at 3B? I think a chunk of the blame should lie on the Jays – they really haven’t put him in the best situation to succeed.

All that said, he’s costing the Jays very little and I must agree with TammyBeth’s post above: this was a low-risk signing from the start. You point out some of the players that have performed better but missed a fair number of free agents that have done less (or the same for much more $$) – guys like Crawford and Ramirez – who many fans wished the Jays splurged over. He’s even putting up similar offensive numbers than Overbay, who is making twice as much.

I don’t see trade value for Edwin. If he hits his ceiling, the Jays keep him and he’s a valuable bat off the bench on a good team. If he never recovers, he’s not brought back and someone else gets to take their chance on him.

]]> By: Theo_Adorno http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3902 Theo_Adorno Tue, 10 May 2011 01:03:20 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3902 Truly, if we were to reflect for a moment, we may come to recognize that saying that somebody is "incorrect" followed by dropping a name of a continental philosopher may in fact be narissistic. I prefer to engage in discourse. I am a social democrat after all. Additionally, I suggested there were in fact three plays which I thought Edwin was let down on. You rebutted and suggested one. I am no Hans Gaddamer but I do believe this still adds up to 2! Agreed - E5 sucks at third. Errors however, may not be the best stat by which to make this judgement. Truly, if we were to reflect for a moment, we may come to recognize that saying that somebody is “incorrect” followed by dropping a name of a continental philosopher may in fact be narissistic.

I prefer to engage in discourse. I am a social democrat after all.

Additionally, I suggested there were in fact three plays which I thought Edwin was let down on. You rebutted and suggested one. I am no Hans Gaddamer but I do believe this still adds up to 2!

Agreed – E5 sucks at third. Errors however, may not be the best stat by which to make this judgement.

]]> By: TammyBeth http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3901 TammyBeth Mon, 09 May 2011 23:23:01 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3901 Players with better reputations and/or bigger contracts than Encarnacion with OPS totals lower than EE's: Daric Barton - .619 David DeJesus - .614 Jorge Posada - .610 Adam Dunn - .610 Nick Markakis - .606 Alex Rios - .596 Chone Figgins - .578 Brandon Inge - .564 Justin Morneau - .561 Carl Crawford - .549 Vernon Wells - .520 In all there are 23 starters in the league doing worse than EE and the majority of them are highly paid and well respected. Just above him on the list are Nick Swisher, Shin Soo-Choo, Brian Roberts, Mark Reynolds, and Mike Cuddyer. which is to say, it is WILDLY too early to call EE's contract "near disastrous" Last year at the end of April Mark Texeria, David Ortiz and Mike Napoli were among those who were invisible at the plate in April. not that I'm arguing against dealing him, but there's no reason anyone should expect to get any value for him now. No one significant will be dealt for before late June. If I was going to predict someone being dealt before that, I'd suggest it would be Jo-Jo. Players with better reputations and/or bigger contracts than Encarnacion with OPS totals lower than EE’s:

Daric Barton – .619
David DeJesus – .614
Jorge Posada – .610
Adam Dunn – .610
Nick Markakis – .606
Alex Rios – .596
Chone Figgins – .578
Brandon Inge – .564
Justin Morneau – .561
Carl Crawford – .549
Vernon Wells – .520

In all there are 23 starters in the league doing worse than EE and the majority of them are highly paid and well respected.

Just above him on the list are Nick Swisher, Shin Soo-Choo, Brian Roberts, Mark Reynolds, and Mike Cuddyer.

which is to say, it is WILDLY too early to call EE’s contract “near disastrous”

Last year at the end of April Mark Texeria, David Ortiz and Mike Napoli were among those who were invisible at the plate in April.

not that I’m arguing against dealing him, but there’s no reason anyone should expect to get any value for him now. No one significant will be dealt for before late June.

If I was going to predict someone being dealt before that, I’d suggest it would be Jo-Jo.

]]> By: Fan http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3900 Fan Mon, 09 May 2011 22:06:35 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3900 Well Mr. Adorno, with the narcisstic name and all, you are incorrect. Edwin may have one or two (debatable) less errors if bounces went his way. But then again, how about that hard grounder hit to him which he misplayed, and wasn't charged an error. Point being, his stats are in fact refelctive of his play - HE SUCKS AT DEFENSE! . So i don't get what you're trying to say: E5 is better than we think at 3B, or that we need Overbay back at the expense of Lind. . I think i'll start calling myself Hans Gaddamer. Well Mr. Adorno, with the narcisstic name and all, you are incorrect. Edwin may have one or two (debatable) less errors if bounces went his way. But then again, how about that hard grounder hit to him which he misplayed, and wasn’t charged an error. Point being, his stats are in fact refelctive of his play – HE SUCKS AT DEFENSE!
.
So i don’t get what you’re trying to say: E5 is better than we think at 3B, or that we need Overbay back at the expense of Lind.
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I think i’ll start calling myself Hans Gaddamer.

]]> By: Theo_Adorno http://jaysjournal.com/2011/05/09/edwin-encarnacion-the-unproductive-dh-on-the-block/comment-page-1/#comment-3898 Theo_Adorno Mon, 09 May 2011 18:34:36 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=7535#comment-3898 Had Overbay been playing first, Edwin would probably have two less errors. Please do not interpret this as a vote for Edwin at third but he would have been picked up by a better more experienced receiver at first base. Additionally, I cannot recall the exact circumstances but I remember Escobar srewing up a throw from Edwin causing E5 to be charged with an error. Had Overbay been playing first, Edwin would probably have two less errors. Please do not interpret this as a vote for Edwin at third but he would have been picked up by a better more experienced receiver at first base.

Additionally, I cannot recall the exact circumstances but I remember Escobar srewing up a throw from Edwin causing E5 to be charged with an error.

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