Comments on: Assessing Potential Jays Trade Targets: Yonder Alonso http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/ A Toronto Blue Jays Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:16:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Mat Germain http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3105 Mat Germain Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:10:19 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3105 That could be part of it, but I think that they had liked Lawrie a lot for a long time and really liked how marketable he could become as a Canadian super-star. Add the grit he has - something that the Jays could use a little more of - and he was the perfect person for them to go and get. Hey, if he can fit in at 3B, hit, and allow for Jose to go to RF, he was more than worth Marcum (which I'm sure you agree with). Also, the relationship between Doug Melvin and Alex Anthopoulos seems to be extremely cordial as both are Canadians and both have what seems to be mutual respect for one another. That's why I think a deal got done. Now, that's not to say that when AA said no the first time Melvin offered the deal that was agreed to, he didn't go back into his office and play out the entire scenario. If he did that and did foresee the opportunity to pressure other NL Central teams - such as the Cards, Reds, and Cubs - into making deals with the Jays, he's even more wily than people give him credit for! I wouldn't put it past him one bit. The Jays know that the Reds have some holes to fill in order to become this season's Giants, so they could be positioning themselves for a trade. With talks of Jo-Jo Reyes making the pen for the Jays heating up, you never know what will shake down pre-season for the Jays. All I know is that they have a surplus of pen arms, while others are severely deficient there...such as the Reds, Phillies, and Braves. That could be part of it, but I think that they had liked Lawrie a lot for a long time and really liked how marketable he could become as a Canadian super-star. Add the grit he has – something that the Jays could use a little more of – and he was the perfect person for them to go and get. Hey, if he can fit in at 3B, hit, and allow for Jose to go to RF, he was more than worth Marcum (which I’m sure you agree with).

Also, the relationship between Doug Melvin and Alex Anthopoulos seems to be extremely cordial as both are Canadians and both have what seems to be mutual respect for one another. That’s why I think a deal got done.

Now, that’s not to say that when AA said no the first time Melvin offered the deal that was agreed to, he didn’t go back into his office and play out the entire scenario. If he did that and did foresee the opportunity to pressure other NL Central teams – such as the Cards, Reds, and Cubs – into making deals with the Jays, he’s even more wily than people give him credit for! I wouldn’t put it past him one bit. The Jays know that the Reds have some holes to fill in order to become this season’s Giants, so they could be positioning themselves for a trade.

With talks of Jo-Jo Reyes making the pen for the Jays heating up, you never know what will shake down pre-season for the Jays. All I know is that they have a surplus of pen arms, while others are severely deficient there…such as the Reds, Phillies, and Braves.

]]> By: noisyflowers http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3103 noisyflowers Mon, 21 Feb 2011 16:39:10 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3103 The whole point of the Lawrie trade was to take advantage of an opportunity to acquire a targeted player. Like Anthony Gose, Lawrie was a guy the Jays had been coveting for awhile and they knew they would probably only get one shot to get him. If AA had hesitated, Lawrie would have probably ended up in KC and if not in KC via the Greinke than than another team in a different trade. Milwaukee was willing to move Lawrie and the Jays made sure it was to them. Simple as that. The whole point of the Lawrie trade was to take advantage of an opportunity to acquire a targeted player. Like Anthony Gose, Lawrie was a guy the Jays had been coveting for awhile and they knew they would probably only get one shot to get him. If AA had hesitated, Lawrie would have probably ended up in KC and if not in KC via the Greinke than than another team in a different trade. Milwaukee was willing to move Lawrie and the Jays made sure it was to them. Simple as that.

]]> By: Keith http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3102 Keith Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:29:43 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3102 One other question Matt, you wrote a post a while ago about GM's especially AA trying to force another teams hand by making a deal. This was a post about the Marcum deal perhaps taking the Brewers out of the running for Greinke. Who they still wound up getting. Do you think another one of the side benefits of the Lawrie deal (besides getting Lawrie) was to put pressure on the Reds? Specifically now that the Brewers will be a powerhouse/ favourite team in the NL Central, the Reds may need to shore up in order to stay competitive. This may wind up forcing them to deal from a position of strength.... One other question Matt, you wrote a post a while ago about GM’s especially AA trying to force another teams hand by making a deal. This was a post about the Marcum deal perhaps taking the Brewers out of the running for Greinke. Who they still wound up getting.
Do you think another one of the side benefits of the Lawrie deal (besides getting Lawrie) was to put pressure on the Reds? Specifically now that the Brewers will be a powerhouse/ favourite team in the NL Central, the Reds may need to shore up in order to stay competitive. This may wind up forcing them to deal from a position of strength….

]]> By: Keith http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3095 Keith Mon, 21 Feb 2011 02:23:51 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3095 Matt - I couldn't agree with you more. For those who don`t see prospects being dealt for RP. Consider this: 1 - the Jays pen lost 26 games last year. If we even win 10 of those games, we`re right there in the hunt for a wild card. P.S the Yankees won 95 games so if we don`t lose those 10 games, we are tied and as we had the better record head to head.....we are the wild card. 2 - Plus AA and Billy bean have illustrated there is a loop hole in the current CBA where RP is valued fairly highly, allowing for mid-high end guys like Downs to give you great compensation back (2 picks for the Jays in this years draft). Don`t you think other clubs are looking at this and trying to acquire bullpen arms at a reasonable cost knowing they will get picks when they walk. 3 - Lastly trades have to work both ways. As you have illustrated the Reds pen needs match up nicely with the Jays positional needs. I`ve also been tracking Yonder also as a potential 1B of the future for the Jays, as I don`t see anything but Mike McDade in the minors. This will be a big year for McDade and if he can get his OBP up and strikeout % down we could have something as he has a great glove for a big man. Now that we have a bit of stability with pitching, I think you will see AA start to focus on the position players more. What better asset to trade from for the Jays = MLB ready Bullpen arms. If you look at the 40 man, we have at least 8 guys with legitimate track records or who are out of options, in the pen. Fransisco, Rauch, Dotel, Fraser and Camp are locks or will have to prove they are not capable due to salary. Purcey is out of options and so he is likely in. Now you are left with Villenueva, Jansen, Reyes (who is out of options) and the loser for the 5th starter - assuming that is a battle between Litch and Zep. 4 guys battling for 1 spot. I could see this deal coming together pretty quickly towards the end of the spring or by end of May - especially if the Reds have an injury in middle relief. Matt – I couldn’t agree with you more. For those who don`t see prospects being dealt for RP. Consider this:
1 – the Jays pen lost 26 games last year. If we even win 10 of those games, we`re right there in the hunt for a wild card. P.S the Yankees won 95 games so if we don`t lose those 10 games, we are tied and as we had the better record head to head…..we are the wild card.
2 – Plus AA and Billy bean have illustrated there is a loop hole in the current CBA where RP is valued fairly highly, allowing for mid-high end guys like Downs to give you great compensation back (2 picks for the Jays in this years draft). Don`t you think other clubs are looking at this and trying to acquire bullpen arms at a reasonable cost knowing they will get picks when they walk.
3 – Lastly trades have to work both ways. As you have illustrated the Reds pen needs match up nicely with the Jays positional needs.

I`ve also been tracking Yonder also as a potential 1B of the future for the Jays, as I don`t see anything but Mike McDade in the minors. This will be a big year for McDade and if he can get his OBP up and strikeout % down we could have something as he has a great glove for a big man.
Now that we have a bit of stability with pitching, I think you will see AA start to focus on the position players more. What better asset to trade from for the Jays = MLB ready Bullpen arms. If you look at the 40 man, we have at least 8 guys with legitimate track records or who are out of options, in the pen. Fransisco, Rauch, Dotel, Fraser and Camp are locks or will have to prove they are not capable due to salary. Purcey is out of options and so he is likely in. Now you are left with Villenueva, Jansen, Reyes (who is out of options) and the loser for the 5th starter – assuming that is a battle between Litch and Zep. 4 guys battling for 1 spot.
I could see this deal coming together pretty quickly towards the end of the spring or by end of May – especially if the Reds have an injury in middle relief.

]]> By: Mat Germain http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3091 Mat Germain Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:58:00 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3091 Just as a follow-up, Walt Jocketty was on MLB Radio and mentioned that Alonso has lost weight in hopes of being able to stick with the Reds in LF. We'll see how it works out, but in the same conversation Walt also mentioned Fred Lewis and Johnny Gomes would me manning LF in 2011, so it seems like a tough road ahead for Alonso. Just as a follow-up, Walt Jocketty was on MLB Radio and mentioned that Alonso has lost weight in hopes of being able to stick with the Reds in LF. We’ll see how it works out, but in the same conversation Walt also mentioned Fred Lewis and Johnny Gomes would me manning LF in 2011, so it seems like a tough road ahead for Alonso.

]]> By: AG http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3089 AG Sun, 20 Feb 2011 21:57:37 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3089 I used to be quite bearish on Alonso but I'm coming around. He had a monster second half last year which was enough for him to salvage an .825 OPS out of a season that started very poorly. If Alonso starts 2011 strongly he will make quite an asset for the Reds at the trade deadline. By then The Jays will have a better idea of what kind of first baseman Lind is. Assuming the Jays aren't in a playoff hunt at that point and that the Reds are, an Alonso deal might be very appealing to both teams. I used to be quite bearish on Alonso but I’m coming around. He had a monster second half last year which was enough for him to salvage an .825 OPS out of a season that started very poorly. If Alonso starts 2011 strongly he will make quite an asset for the Reds at the trade deadline. By then The Jays will have a better idea of what kind of first baseman Lind is. Assuming the Jays aren’t in a playoff hunt at that point and that the Reds are, an Alonso deal might be very appealing to both teams.

]]> By: Marsupial Jones http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3087 Marsupial Jones Sun, 20 Feb 2011 17:30:49 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3087 Yeah but at that point he wasnt a prospect anymore. When he was actually in the position that Alonso is in right now and was the promising prospect the author talked about he was traded for one of the best players in the game. Teams just dont trade top end prospects to target relief pitching very often. If ever. Not to mention the Jays dont even have that good of relievers to offer. I'm sure if the Reds actually wanted to trade Alonso for relief help they could find better. Yeah but at that point he wasnt a prospect anymore. When he was actually in the position that Alonso is in right now and was the promising prospect the author talked about he was traded for one of the best players in the game.

Teams just dont trade top end prospects to target relief pitching very often. If ever. Not to mention the Jays dont even have that good of relievers to offer. I’m sure if the Reds actually wanted to trade Alonso for relief help they could find better.

]]> By: Mat Germain http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3085 Mat Germain Sun, 20 Feb 2011 12:58:38 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3085 That's an interesting thought Dan, but I think the Reds have one of the best catching prospects out there in Devin Mesoraco. In fact, if you're looking for a catcher for fantasy purposes, he's a good one to grab early. Between 3 leagues in 2010, he hit 26 HRs with a total line of .302/.377/.587. The fact that he made it all of the way to AAA as a 22 year old tells you something about his skills, particularly when the Jays have plenty of examples to show that catching sometimes takes a while to learn. If Carlos Perez makes it to AA in 2011, and then AAA in 2012, he'd be the same age, so that's the timeline Mesoraco has worked into age wise. Of note is that he'll be in AAA in 2011 and that his average and OBP did drop a lot in AAA last year (.231/.310) but that was to be expected when being pushed so hard. HE could arrive in Cinci by mid-season if he does well. However, I say that it's an interesting thought because the presence of Mesoraco in their system doesn't prohibit them from seeking other options, particularly when he's leaving the system some time in 2011. Adding a catcher like AJ Jimenez or Brian Jeroloman to their system could be very enticing as either could eventually share time with Mesoraco or replace him if he is injured or unable to catch. That’s an interesting thought Dan, but I think the Reds have one of the best catching prospects out there in Devin Mesoraco. In fact, if you’re looking for a catcher for fantasy purposes, he’s a good one to grab early. Between 3 leagues in 2010, he hit 26 HRs with a total line of .302/.377/.587. The fact that he made it all of the way to AAA as a 22 year old tells you something about his skills, particularly when the Jays have plenty of examples to show that catching sometimes takes a while to learn. If Carlos Perez makes it to AA in 2011, and then AAA in 2012, he’d be the same age, so that’s the timeline Mesoraco has worked into age wise.

Of note is that he’ll be in AAA in 2011 and that his average and OBP did drop a lot in AAA last year (.231/.310) but that was to be expected when being pushed so hard. HE could arrive in Cinci by mid-season if he does well.

However, I say that it’s an interesting thought because the presence of Mesoraco in their system doesn’t prohibit them from seeking other options, particularly when he’s leaving the system some time in 2011. Adding a catcher like AJ Jimenez or Brian Jeroloman to their system could be very enticing as either could eventually share time with Mesoraco or replace him if he is injured or unable to catch.

]]> By: Shockey12 http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3083 Shockey12 Sun, 20 Feb 2011 04:11:08 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3083 The marlins traded him to the Padres earlier in the offseason for 2 relievers.... The marlins traded him to the Padres earlier in the offseason for 2 relievers….

]]> By: Marsupial Jones http://jaysjournal.com/2011/02/19/assessing-potential-jays-trade-targets-yonder-alonso/comment-page-1/#comment-3082 Marsupial Jones Sun, 20 Feb 2011 02:04:05 +0000 http://jaysjournal.com/?p=5911#comment-3082 Uggla was going to be a free agent relatively soon and wasnt going to sign with the Marlins (he had already rejected a 4 year 48 million dollar deal). It is hardly the same thing as trading one of your best prospects for a reliever. And I'm not sure Cameron Maybin you are talking about but the only one that I know of wasn't traded for two relievers. He was traded (along with 4 other players) for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. Uggla was going to be a free agent relatively soon and wasnt going to sign with the Marlins (he had already rejected a 4 year 48 million dollar deal). It is hardly the same thing as trading one of your best prospects for a reliever.

And I’m not sure Cameron Maybin you are talking about but the only one that I know of wasn’t traded for two relievers. He was traded (along with 4 other players) for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis.

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